Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
Carmen, Sol, just to make you feel better have pasted part of a text sent out to therapists in the UK.
Its in the ‘forum’ Lacan symposia ‘evaluation’ section.
Comment by Sol — June 5, 2008
t makes me think carmen that I feel much more unhappy since my analysis
some days I wonder why I still like psychoanalysis at all
Comment by carmen teixidor — June 5, 2008
Poor Didier Anzieu. it’s rare to see faces so openly unhappy these days. unless you go to war torn countries.
i guess that france after the war was a very grim country, and anti-depressant were not given easily then.
he was doing it the hard way through psychoanalysis with Lacan.
what a cultural contrast with the US news and ads and all its smiling laughing faces.
i guess it’s culturally unacceptable here not to want to disguise or hide a depression.
but your comments made me laugh anyway,
carmen
Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
oops sorry, thought it had been deserted!
Comment by admin — June 5, 2008
You mean “the introduction of images has had an odd effect next door at the messageboard” because it stopped functioning? This is my fault. I made a big mistake changing the messageboard address, and then learned you are not suppose to do that. I am waiting for some expert on Wordpress to come and help…
Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
It seems the introduction of images has had an odd effect next door at the messageboard and I wonder whether this poses a question or two about images. So how do we come to images here? As an artist, I could say I work with them, but what happens here?
During a recent spell when the space I use as a studio was open to the public, someone asked me about my paintings. I said, I sometimes don’t know what to say about paintings but with video or text it’s somehow easier. Afterwards I thought, with painting there’s a push towards words and with video, the production of a text precedes the work of video … however, the question of permission(s) is never far away from questions surrounding images…
Comment by violet — June 4, 2008
CS - The owl in the background sounds happier than Didier Anzieu at 9:04 pm
Comment by Chris Sands — June 4, 2008
Here is Didier Anzieu
Didier Anzieu didn’t look very happy at 9.04pm !
Comment by alice — June 2, 2008
CS — look what I found………...
1949 Didier Anzieu starts analysis with Jacques Lacan ————>1952 Didier Anzieu ends analysis with Jacques Lacan
Comment by Sol — June 2, 2008
thanks Alice
thanks for the photo CS
Comment by carmen teixidor — June 2, 2008
I don’t know either. but didier was a student of lacan, that i know.
carmen
Comment by alice — May 21, 2008
Didier Anzieu son of AimÞe - Marguerite Paintaine who was later to become Marguerite Anzieu - if he was in analysis with Lacan?………not that I know about
Comment by alice — May 20, 2008
Here’s another nice passage “I might put it this way – it sounds banal, but in my case it seems true: I became a psychoanalyst to care for my mother. Not so much to care for her in reality, even though I did succeed in helping her, in the last quarter of her life, to find a relatively happy, balanced life. What I mean is, to care for my mother in myself and other people. To care, in other people, for this threatening and threatened mother…” APP 20 (Anzieu, Didier, Une Peau pour les pensÞes (Paris : ApsygÞe, 1991)
Comment by admin — May 20, 2008
CSS - I found out about uploading images in the symposium using the forum experience… all very superficial, so probably there is much more to it,
we need to find out
Comment by Chris Sands — May 20, 2008
If depression can be linked to Freud’s seminal ‘Mourning and Melancholia’, Aimee contends with grief. In a symbolic and real way, she represents and embodies her dead sister and her mourning and impossible mourning (melancholia) return as Didier Anjieu and stillborn child …
Was Anjieu in analysis with Lacan?
Comment by alice — May 20, 2008
“Why was she depressed? Because of her sensitive character. It made her unable to deal with my birth, which brought back the terrible memory of the stillborn baby. And why this sensitivity? I think it was due to the circumstances of her own birth.
[…] My mother only spoke openly of this once. But I knew it as a family legend. I think her depression goes back to this untenable position. She had put it off after the birth of her little girl who was stillborn, which seemed an implacable repetition of fate. And then my birth, which was successful, brought back that intolerable threat… APP 19-20
Comment by Chris Sands - May 20, 2008
Many thanks Admin. but does this mean we should only use gif files, so perhaps convert jpeg to gif? Or does the system automatically convert one to the other? I think this has to do with different methods of file compression
Comment by alice - May 20, 2008
Sol - of the initials: 1991 APP (Appendix) Anzieu, Didier, Une Peau pour les pensÞes (Paris : ApsygÞe, 1991)
Comment by admin - May 20, 2008
CS - the system wouldn't take "jpg"... finally I put the cockerel "gif" in a lacan.com page and that worked. This means you can make the image in your blog big - - - they don't affect each other
Comment by Chris Sands - May 29
the cockerel is one of a few hens that wonder about an Elizabethan castle. The castle is out at sea and closed for long periods.
Comment by Sol - May 28, 2008
Thanks for following up with the versions of the stories of Aimee and Didier Alice. Can you elaborate that second reference please? What do th einitials stand for, i would like to read more.
Comment by Chris Sands - May 27, 2008
Well this is a first! The image (transported by admin) is taken from a blog http://chrissands.wordpress.com/_- via the forum symposium annexe.
ps. admin, were you able to do this using the instructions above?
Comment by Chris Sands - May 26, 2008
ps. the push to find a place of safety still exists and people still push to go into hospital when in crisis.
Comment by Chris Sands - May 26, 2008
No, tried it (82) but nothing happened. I had in mind the trauma of images, but it will have to wait. Carmen, Alice, reference to Anjieu's mother seems to be reference to trauma. Material that can't be forgotten and can never be repressed. AimÞe apart, we now use technology to regulate daily doses of trauma, but never seem far away from it. In this respect, an art place (gallery, museum, street) becomes a location never far away from 'the action'. I want to find out more about about Aimee, but if she spent long periods in hospital, hospitals (asylums) were also places close up to the proximity of trauma._These places of 'safety' are fast disappearing to be replaced by versions of 'care in the community', and at the same time we are never far away from a cyclone, earthquake or reference to the Other's personal calamity. Does technology (television, mobile phones, internet) replace asylums as regulators of trauma? Is there time to look at the jouissance involved?
Comment by admin - May 26, 2008
I did some changes to the messageboard and it stopped working, sorry for that, we'll have to wait till I get someone to help me fix it
Comment by admin - May 25, 2008
look whose here 
Comment by alice - May 25, 2008
Here's two versions of the touching story of the little girl that got burnt in the fireplace... The first version is Jacques Lacan's, the second one Didier Anzieu's
1 The family talk a lot about a violent emotion the mother suffered while she was pregnant with my patient. The eldest daughter died as the result of a tragic accident: she fell, before her mother's very eyes, into the wide-open door of a lighted stove and died very rapidly of severe burns. JL 174-5
2 [My mother] was the third child in the family, the third or fourth... That's the problem. Before her, in fact, three daughters were born. The family lived in a large stone house close to the stable and the fields. The main room was heated by a large fireplace filled with big burning logs, where they cooked, and there were benches in it that you could sit on. This happened before my mother was born. It was a feastday. Marguerite, the youngest of the three daughters, had an organdie dress on, ready to go to church. She'd been left for a moment in the charge of the eldest girl, the one who was to become my godmother. The child was lightly dressed, it was cold, she went up to the fire to warm herself... and was burnt alive. It was a dreadful shock for her parents and her two sisters. So my mother was conceived as a replacement for the dead child. And since she was another girl, they gave her the same name, Marguerite. The living dead, in a way... It's no coincidence that my mother spent her life finding ways to escape from the flames of hell... It was a way of accepting her fate, a tragic fate. My mother only spoke openly of this once. But I knew it as a family legend. I think her depression goes back to this untenable position. APP 19-20
carmen teixidor — May 21, 2008 @ 10:22 am
thank you Alice, thank you Sol. i did not know about Anzieu’s mother.
his book, “Le Corps de l”Oeuvre” is one of my favorite books ever. it’s all about artistic creation (versus creativity), especially literary creation.
i don’t know if the book has been translated. the title means: the body of work, or more precisely: the body of the work (i am not sure it makes sense in English).
the quotation about why he became a psychiatrist makes so much sense.
carmen
sol — May 20, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
Carmen I have read Anzieu’s ‘Freuds self analysis and the discovery of psychoanalysis’
which I found interesting, and worth reading, and some about the skin, but not the book you mention.
Alice, I didn’t realize that Anzieu’s mother was Aimee, but have just looked up some writing
on that and there is a re-naming of the mother after someone whose skin was burnt-
thanks for that connection..
alice — May 20, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
carmen - 72 - Anzieu’s mother was a mental patient. Jacque Lacan interviewed her in April 1921, when she was arrested and then sectioned for attacking a famous stage actress with a knife. Lacan wrote his doctoral thesis on Marguerite Anzieu under the pseudonym of ‘Aim�(c)e’, using her case-history as a prototype of the role of personality in psychopathic development. Didier Anzieu (1922-1999), in a set of interviews conducted in 1982, when he was sixty said: ‘I became a psychoanalyst to care for my mother. Not so much to care for her in reality, even though I did succeed in helping her, in the last quarter of her life, to find a relatively happy, balanced life. What I mean is, to care for my mother in myself and other people. To care, in other people, for this threatening and threatened mother… “
Mia — May 18, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
could admin delete my last message?
Chris Sands — May 18, 2008 @ 2:04 am
Mia, there’s so much here on Lacan.com.
Zizek’s How to Read Lacan http://www.lacan.com/zizhowto.html
or so many of his works
- look through ‘SYMPTOM’ articles (here, see above)
at Darian Leader, who has even written a comic book introduction
Mia — May 17, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
quick question: does anyone have any recommendations re: introductory books on Lacan readable by art students (who smoke too much pot..) or those with a more literary/cultural focus rather than a straight psychoanalytic focus? i’m stuck, but have to organize the curriculum - Chris Sands you may know of texts for art students …
carmen teixidor — May 16, 2008 @ 8:58 pm
Is anybody familiar with Didier Anzieu’s work? especially “Le Corps de l’Oeuvre”
carmen
Chris Sands — May 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
There’s a conversation starting on the messageboard about ’semblance’ and ’sinthome’ and something you say here (C), makes me think of the two s’s. But also, it reminds of a conversation that bothered me some time ago. A friend was talking about art - and referring, I think, to 20,000 years of Australian art, talked about ‘art always being there’. Art always being there, bothered me then and it bothers me now. I don’t think art’s always there and the notion that it is, I think somehow amounts to what Lacan calls a ‘lack of lack’. So, for an artist, this ‘lack of lack’ could be a dangerous state of affairs or symptom. But if this something that’s always there is somehow symptomatic of the sinthome or at least symptomatic for three or four hundred years in the case of Joyce, then the sinthome also amounts to a sentence, even if it can’t be a signifier or semblance.
Carmen, I had to reread your last sentence. In Seminar X1, Lacan says something about showing work and the flooding of the superego.
carmen teixidor — May 12, 2008 @ 9:20 am
i haven’t read the sinthome. i will as soon as i get to france. i’ll read it my usual way: opening the book at any page, see what resonates, continue or not. open another page, etc…
meandering through it.
i feel like i have photographed my subconscious when i find those weird scenes in the mirror.
sharing and showing is on another level for me. very unpleasant extension of the work.
carmen
Chris Sands — May 9, 2008 @ 4:25 am
dear Carmen, your question at the end seems very large first thing in the morning. I imagine you’re in New York or somewhere close, whereas I’m waking up on a little English speaking island in sight (some days) of the coastline of Normandy. So … far off the beaten track where the art world’s concerned!!!!! Despite the proximity of France and the wrath of some of my ancestors, I speak very little French, so make do with Lacan and Lacanians in translation. Because of this, Josefina and Lacanian Ink have made a big difference for me and I think this site is quite extraordinary.
Like many others I came to Lacan’s translated texts via Zizek and others. Seminar XI is possibly particularly relevant for artists, so too ‘Encore’ (Seminar XX) and the untranslated ‘Sinthome’ seminar. Perhaps the question of art relating to Lacan needs to be put the other way around. At some kind of first thing in the morning theoretical level, I might start with Warhols fifteen minutes (now 15 seconds) of fame and the latter day effects of Walter Benjamin’s ‘art in an age of mechanical reproduction’ and get into bed with Lacan’s notion of the ’sinthome’.
The Joycean (sinthome) symptom is a difficult idea, mainly because in practice it makes sense retrospectively, in a way that Lacan looked back at the writing of James Joyce or saw Joyce’s symptom as intimately connected to his life and work. So Joyce writes and makes his name despite ‘difficulties’ he has with his father and paternity. And looking around at the art world (first thing in the morning) can also be looking around at a world of sinthomes, only as someone suggested, sinthomes don’t talk to each. So, to shorten my response to your question (and there are too many gaps), I’d say, for me, the late Lacan of the sinthome makes some sense in terms of ‘the work of art’ (and my work), but my shift is always from the pervasive silence of the work to ‘a talking’ - to a ‘collaboration’ - to a showing - to a viewing - to the unconscious. And I’ll probably regret saying most of this later today if i get a chance to do some of my own stuff.
carmen teixidor — May 8, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
hi Chris
i think i have to get more familiar with the site, read all the blogs, people’s comments, see your work…. i am excited i have found it. thank you for having this dialogue with me.
a sculptor’s ear, maybe. except that you witness the actual movement and transformation. but yes, ear becomes the matter i work with as i would work with clay, or plaster…
i am chasing images because that’s what i am after, and that’s what i find.
veteran’s home: i mean the house of a future world war (2,4,5,6…?) veteran. ears are known to be taken as trophies of war, or hunting. i’m afraid not much will have changed on that level then.
i am very literal in my work.
i have not read lacan in translation (french is my native language). i can’t even imagine his work translated. english is so concrete, and french so abstract.
but there must be some good translations.
how do you see art relating to lacan?
Chris Sands — May 8, 2008 @ 2:02 am
oops, don’t know why there are two ’sometimes’ above
Chris Sands — May 8, 2008 @ 2:01 am
hi Carmen, you’re speaking to someone on the other side of the Atlantic … what’s a veterans home?
Your artist’s ear sounds as if it might be a sculptor’s ear (’constantly manipulated and transformed’), but to be chasing images … don’t they sometimes sometimes come to you?
carmen teixidor — May 7, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Hi. the chase is all within myself, and i am chasing images.
my short is about 2 ears getting separated. one ends up as a trophy in a veteran’s home. the other is constantly manipulated and transformed by an artist.
it’s all very literal.
carmen
Chris Sands — May 7, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Carmen, If there’s a chase do we know who’s in front?
I suppose what cropped up for me (between tortoise and hare) was an idea that I thought had to do with limits.
The conversation goes back a few weeks.
A ‘limit’ in therapy had to do with an insistence on sessions being live and not by phone etc.
- and so I thought about my own work (as an artist) and wondered whether there isn’t something similar happening.
So, I put things on the net etc. but have in mind a world ‘back here’ where the process of making a film for, example, gets caught up in a series of events, conversations and something quite live. Or, at least, I think so …
My limit is ‘not too much in one place’ (in between one form and the next) …
What was your film idea?
carmen teixidor — May 7, 2008 @ 9:21 am
i am not going to address your “if….” questions. there are too may assumptions there. i always go back to my own experience and type of work: yes,in a very simplistic way, images are the imaginary
versions of fantasies. i guess in one way images become symbolic once they are out in society, and represent the monetary value they are given.
adding words to an image is a way to connect it to the “other” world.
why would the virtuality of an image be its context? the context is the real world in which it was created, and in which it appears. Virtual is just a means, a tool.
By “behind the scene” i did not literally mean “behind.” The “behind” could be in front, left or right. I meant that the feeling of a “behind the scene” is the feeling that “that’s not it.” and so the chase goes on.
Chris Sands — May 6, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
Carmen (hello again),
isn’t this ‘layering’ (in itself) somehow symptomatic of what Lacan calls the Imaginary?
And isn’t there more to images (and contemporary art) than the imaginary and something fleeting … fugitive?
There are many Lacans too and the Lacan of the sinthome ties the imaginary to the symbolic and the real and sometimes, it seems, this gesture privileges art or turns ‘the work of art’ towards a holy war versus many versions of the superego.
Is there always ‘a behind the scenes’?
If contemporary art is also a question of the context of the work, how do we begin with ‘context’ and ‘virtual’?
If the context is a ‘virtual world’, do we need to locate this world on the way to the question of context?
Is it halfway between what Eric Laurent calls ‘religious fundamentalism’ and ‘narco capitalism’?
And now look what’s happened … those ‘layers’ have caused too many questions …
carmen teixidor — May 6, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
responding to chris’s comment on images being objects sometimes: yes: in a very literal sense that’s why i abandonned sculpture. literally again: that’s why virtual is great. also layerings of meanings, with layering of video sequences.
but in the end it’s impossible to win: be it virtual or material there is always a “behind the scene,” in that sense an image remains an object to be replaced, and replaced, and replaced….by yet another, and another…
Chris Sands — May 6, 2008 @ 2:25 am
Braxton, Carmen, have posted something in the forum annexe
braxton fuzzledorf — May 2, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Your use of images to break up your text on the wordpress blog is particularly interesting. I stared at the coins on the bed for at least 2 or 4 minutes before i finished reading . . .
Re: the personal and political in contemporary art - i think the political has become more personal in recent centuries through improved information technologies from the printing press to the web - at the same time, we’ve come to feel increasingly alienated from the political process (semi-paradoxically, this is one of the consequences of spreading Democracy - whereby giving everyone a say means that WHAT each person says becomes less and less significant to the overall scheme), and that alienation then leads us to channel our political feelings through outlets of expression more personal than just the voting booth or townhall meeting, extending to the art, fashion, literature, ironic and subversive humor, angry music, etc . . . there’s also a sense in which the aforementioned technologies have made art (and fashion and music, etc, etc) LESS personal and MORE political in their very essence, through mass production, etc - it’s like a simultaneous merger of the two realms - yet another dichotomy dissolved in the acid bath of the postmodern.
Chris Sands — April 24, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
Braxton, please no apologies. Surely to have feelings is the main thing and many different ones in the course of each day …
Re. the personal: There is a tendency in contemporary art to link the personal to the political and whether or not this can be linked to an attack on psychoanalysis is one thing, but I was also thinking about the use of images and text here. Another coordinate (for me) is the HM Brousse paper ‘When It Ceases’ (latest ‘Psychoanalytic Notetbooks’) and different versions of disrupting a continuim (the time of the session, the timelessness of the unconscious). In a sense, use of images to break up texts has to do with an art and psychoanalysis symposium, but images seem sometimes objects and sometimes not.
Sol — April 24, 2008 @ 12:51 am
Sarah I checked the Green but I was mistaken
- it was a reference to Pontalis rather than LaPlanche
I think it’s worth buying - the Green. The Diachrony..is on my
list to buy too..
I have never heard of this under the counter download site-
if you find it again could you post it??
Have you looked on http://www.abe.com (or abebooks?) for second hand
copies..and Karnac of course..
braxton fuzzledorf — April 22, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Chris: Ah, the orange - kind of intense, but not bad - and yes, no references to Klein’s blue, i promise.
What do you envision with regards to making here more personal?
Your forum images and blog are thought provoking, but i hesitate to make comments for fear of not being clear in my meaning and thereby again incurring your wrath. In any case, i apologize if i inadvertantly contributed to pissing you off.
alice — April 22, 2008 @ 5:11 am
yes “art and lacan symposia’ images… and very beautiful photograph, did oyu do the photograph?
Chris Sands — April 22, 2008 @ 2:29 am
Have submitted another ‘forum’ topic relating (possibly) to the topic above, but under the ‘Miller, Wajcman, Badiou, Zizek’ heading. Its also the return of the symposium annexe idea.
Chris Sands — April 22, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
Well Braxton, how do you find it here? Here its orange, so don’t say anything about Yves Klein’s blue!
Ref. to a theory and practice divide in the context of psychoanalysis was reference to the forum material. So, ref. to efforts to impose state regulation on Lacanian analysts and their practice etc. and (for me) all this relates to a conversation that included mention of a paper called ‘When It Ceases’ by HM Brousse (when Lacan’s work goes beyond the timelessness of the unconscious).
If I was a little pissed off, it had to do with frustration trying ever so hard to say something (whatever it is), but I think Freud said something about the unconscious and antagonism.
So, we have two sites here and I was dreaming the possibility that here could be a little more ‘personal’, imagining somehow that, given present conditions, the personal could be political in the context of contemporary art.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 22, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
Well Chris, here we are at your preferred location . . . can i reiterate now that i don’t follow you with regards to the state, disjunctions of theory and practice, and, for that matter, “diversions” as “part of the territory” in my posts to the other messageboard?
It really isn’t clear to me at all. Are you angry?
Sarah — April 19, 2008 @ 5:47 am
yes Sol, i’ve been intending to get Greens’s Time in Psychoanalysis, and also Greens “Diachrony and psychoanalysis” as it’s not in my university library - there’s another text i’ve been trying to buy Muller & Richardsons “Language and Psychoanalysis: a readers guide to Ecrits” but it’s impossible to find - when i try amazon it costs $110.00 !! There used to be this completely illegal website that had all these texts to download but it disappeared on me ! (somebody got cought!)
Sol — April 18, 2008 @ 2:20 am
Sarah, I read a reference to his use of the term ‘afterwardness’ in the book by Andre Green - Time in Psychoanalysis - I can check the references in there, but it will be a few days until I return to my bookshelf
Sarah — April 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
In the text named “Essays on Otherness” (Jean Laplache), Laplanche writes a short paper entitled “notes on afterwardsness” referring the the Freudian concept of Nachtraglichkeit: he states that he is presently working on a larger paper called “the afterwardsness of nachtraglichkeit” which he adds will constitute a chapter of a new book he is wrting on Time.
Does anyone know if he had published this book on Time?, as i am finding it very difficult to locate ?
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 10:24 pm
it is a wordpress device, yes, whatever that means
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
Mmmmm …
The little icons by the numbers could have pictures though
and there’s a wordpress ‘log on’ facility there too.
Comes close to a typical wordpress format,
which would also allow for images, video (after logging on).
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
yes, it is an upgrade, do you like it?
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
And you’ve changed messageboard format …
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
Chris Sands……… it works! We fixed it
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
B - Sarah’s referring to the seminar after Sem. XV11 - which is not in English,
but ‘the Other side of Psychoanalysis’ was recently available in translation.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 6, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
I like the idea that myth is universal, while dreamstrucure is not: Myth being linked with the human condition and dreamstructure being linked to specific forms of communication . . . there’s far too much universalization of the Oedipal theme in Freud. Our imaginary friend Sigmund understood the mind in a million amazing ways but was at best an unreliable anthropologist. Are there any good translations of the seminars available? I’m feeling defiant today (psychosomatic much?)
Sarah — April 6, 2008 @ 9:52 am
yes chris, he does so in seminar xviii D’un Discours qui ne serait pas du semblant
Chris Sands — April 6, 2008 @ 4:20 am
(replying to 119 on messageboard)
(B) am referring to Antigone and a new reading of the play that Lacan highlights in Seminar VII and elsewhere.
Interestingly, Russell Grigg compares the insights of anthropology (Levi Straus) and psychoanalysis.
Myth is then universal and not tied to particular languages, whereas dream structure (condensation, displacement …) can be linked to particular languages.
Lacan somewhere describes Oedipus as Freud’s dream, hence Lacan’s close attention to speech and the structures of language.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 5, 2008 @ 2:20 pm
I’d be interested in your views on defiance as it relates to both psychoanalysis and art.
Chris Sands — April 5, 2008 @ 4:26 am
Make of it what you will, but above should have put (one before last sentence) ‘… the re-emergence of science versus psychoanalysis and an act of …’.
Chris Sands — April 5, 2008 @ 2:59 am
Have been looking at Russell Grigg’s chapter (Lacan, Language and Philosophy) on Zizek, which talks of the ‘act’, either ethical, hysterical or analytical, seen in terms of both Lacan and Zizek’s reference to Antigone. The author questions the consistency of Antigone’s actions (ate, lament, suicide), when her tragedy can be linked to so much. So where to begin? With Antigone locked in a mausoleum, pensive and sad, defiant to the last, unaware that Creon’s son will be coming to the rescue. Can we suspend the action here and consider the options?
If patriarchal law and the trappings of the symbolic become for Grigg a response and reaction to a fundamental No! and this ‘no’ is characteristic of the hysteric (and ‘Encore’s Other Jouissance), what is Antigone saying in response to CBT, the re-emergence of science versus psychosis and an act of defiance? How does ‘between two deaths’ touch the work of art?
Chris Sands — March 20, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Making use of the (new) forum, have been trying to link a debate inspired in France concerning ‘evaluation’ to some concerns expressed here. So, a ‘call to the barricades’ in the wake of the ‘Paris Calling’ documents (see forum) was also addressed to artists. This led to thoughts correlating structures in therapy to what could be structures effecting the work of art - in a post Walter benjamin period. The son of friends now suggests ‘resistance to digital art’ as a category, which could be like an insistence of ‘live sessions’ in psychoanalysis.
The message posted on the forum on March 19 (Lacan symposia, ‘evaluation’) was an earlier effort to link psychoanalysis and contemporary art - on an unnamed barricade.
Chris Sands — March 17, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
have posted something in forum (evaluation) re. call for online cartel (+ ‘call to the barricades’)
Chris Sands — March 16, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
Sugar, for some reason your image (and A’s response to it) made me think of Alice’s comment on the messageboard (76) and Magritte’s painting - which is certainly not a pipe …
sugar — March 16, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
I put up some images in the forum… it works well, though it takes a while to get use to it
Chris Sands — March 9, 2008 @ 7:51 am
It's hot where you are, but here its winter turning towards spring and a Sunday morning lull before a storm. Possibly the biggest storm in twenty years is forecasted, so having worked on another blog piece (not ready yet), want to have lunch and walk along the beach with camera and waterproof jacket. This sort of weather was impossible here until recently. Why is no-one putting images on the forum?
Sol — March 9, 2008 @ 2:11 am
I’m here
what are we doing?!
alice — March 2, 2008 @ 9:02 pm
Yes, they can be! Indeed!
and where is Lucky, and jampa…………..?
Chris Sands — March 2, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Have continued an evaluation topic started here on the forum with a little help from Delacroix.
Where are you Sol and Sarah?
Chris Sands — March 1, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
Majid, why not make use of the forum to pose a question that’s important to you? If something is important personally, perhaps you can find a way to convey it. Questions can be infectious.
Majid — February 29, 2008 @ 5:20 am
Hi dear Chris! I wonder if we can have something about the links between Philosophy and psychoanalysis; I mean there is quite a comprehensive amount of philosophical problems thatI think from a Lacanian point of view there can be some ways to scape those deadlocks baring philosophy; problems like the matter of “consciousness”, the “howness” of the relation between “ontology” and “epistemology”, “logicality” vs. “illogicality” and so on. And also I was thinking to find correlates between Psychoanalysis (Lacanian one) and Neuroscientific areas. Can these be helpful? Of course if you may accept me one the members of the so called “cartel”! I’d be grateful!
Chris Sands — February 27, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Now that we’ve a forum that can be used in various ways, I wonder if we could go back to the idea proposed by Sarah. This was the ‘online cartel’ idea. If disruptive material can now be taken out, perhaps we could look again at focusing on specific issues and possibly using a forum topic for this purpose. What interests me particularly as an artist, is what psychoanalysis and Lacan brings to the work of art.
In this respect, what grabs me thinking about recent LacInks, were some of Alain Badiou’s musings about contemporary art and Simon Critchley’s extraordinary piece in the most recent journal. I’d somehow like up to tie some thoughts that emerge from readings with other ideas – against the backdrop of what looks like a very important, fast moving resistance to what might be called a culture of evaluation and commensuration.
The symposium seems the right place to suggest a mini ‘online cartel’ looking at psychoanalysis and contemporary art, but I’m wondering what other topics or areas of concern there are out there??? I don’t know if referring to an ‘online cartel’ is especially useful, but the new forum could open up some new possibilities????
Chris Sands — February 20, 2008 @ 5:12 am
Have posted two texts on the topic of ‘evaluation’ on the new site here.
It’s at http://www.lacan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7
Well, the joke feels like ‘no joke at the moment’. There’s an assumption that artists are supposed to communicate and one site of this communication is a ‘proposition’. How I like these words and notions - ‘proposition’, ‘collaboration”, axiom’, ‘post art in an age of mechanical production’, new art etc. The artist proposes this and that and with e-flux for example, there are occasional calls for projects and proposals etc. But something odd happens when a text is used to do the communicating, when it approximates the place of art. It wants to be like the work of art itself or it is the work of art. What isn’t funny next is having to rework the work of ‘propositions’ as ‘business plans’. At this point, something happens to the work as it moves towards a currency and Badiou’s artist (fearful of ‘inexistence’, finds himself or herself in the same place as analysts in France who see there’s work to be done resisting the common currency of evaluation. So, when it comes to the measures and outcomes of ‘business plans that artists write’, the artist says ‘who knows what’ll happen’ and this too becomes part of an artist’s currency. What’s then lost is the work of art’s place holding back the gaze.
Sol — February 19, 2008 @ 8:14 pm
by !
I mean it is a good joke in itself
- a double joke
that can’t be recalled..
Chris Sands — February 18, 2008 @ 4:01 am
Sol, sorry for being this vague, but sometimes it really feels as if art could be the only way of telling something and that something could be telling a joke. Doesn’t art work this way? Like Lacan’s love giving what is doesn’t have, we see the joke when we see the work of art, but buildings like jokes perhaps sometimes only work in situ. I think the joke has to do with something visual in the first place, and calling a film ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’ feels both personal and not so personal. Another provisional title is ‘Seeing Through Commissioning Frank Gehry’, but you can see that I can’t tell jokes this way.
Sol — February 18, 2008 @ 2:22 am
!
Chris Sands — February 17, 2008 @ 7:21 pm
Writing that, I worried someone would ask this and I’ll have to find a way to tell it.
Sol — February 17, 2008 @ 6:14 pm
what is the local joke?
Chris Sands — February 17, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
(passage from blog mentioned above -74, includes images)
I’ve a small connection with my favourite journal and the connection touches work I’m doing at the moment. The work’s partly online and my first connection goes back a long way to a passage taken from Jacques Lacan’s account of a trip to the US. There’s reference to Baltimore and something seen from a window. The next connection is a photo of two people taken in front of building by Frank Gehry in New York.
I haven’t been to New York, but where I live, I’m working with others on a small video based project, provisionally called ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’. The first picture in the blog called ‘Conceptual Floating World’ can be linked to the project, so too the notion of ‘collaborations of contemporary art’. First provisional sequences of ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’ are located in two seaside shelters and this project seems to refer to a local joke.
I live on a small semi self-governing island, where local democracy seems to preclude ‘flashes of brilliance’. What can I say? What remains of an inspired building, a world famous one, where online architects conspire through panes of glass? What happens to intimacy? This text follows an email sent to a friend. In it, I mention the sometimes small gap between what I call ‘my work’ and ‘collaborative work’. The aforementioned Gehry building is called ‘Ship of Glass’.
Sol — February 12, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
there is no subject in science except for the narrator or interrogator of s cience
the historian or philosopher of science for instance or intersecting discourses.
But the relationship between the subject and the scientist -
or rather the relationship between the scientific subject and the divided subject-
is important in the history of science and psychiatry, for psychoanalysis
and for neurosis
Chris Sands — February 12, 2008 @ 5:11 pm
Somehow inspired by messageboard comment (162) a few lines from ‘Le Sinthome’ which begin sounding like a Catechism-
‘We do not believe in the object as such. And we deny that the object can be held by any organ thus conceived, as tool, separate tool - in other words, itself object. In Chomsky’s conception the object is approached by another object. By contrast, it is as a restitution of the subject divided by the operations of language that analysis circulates. It thus puts science as such in question, to the extent that science makes an object into a subject, whereas the subject is in itself divided.’
Sol — February 11, 2008 @ 9:27 am
I agree Sarah, I was using Fonagy as an example:
to ‘prove’ MBT has equivalent ‘outcomes’ to DBT
is pretty pathetic..I don’t think they are intending to
force psychoanalysis into an empirical straitjacket,
as perhaps some universities are - it is more of a
defense against the politics of public psychotherapy,
that they seem a bit lost inside. But I don’t think psychoanalysis
‘knows’ everything..or that empirical research mightn’t
contribute something to ..say for instance social psychoanalysis
the psychoanalysis of groups..I don’t know.
Sarah — February 11, 2008 @ 6:25 am
Something in what you say above Sol makes me react. Indeed the work of Fonagy demonstrates that longer term MBT is suitable for more complex patients, and even does so in an empirically sophisticated way. However, all that time, all that money to build a project that demonstrates something relatively obvious. And that is precicely what forcing psychoanalysis into an empirical paradigm does: long drawn out projects to demonstrate things psychoanalysis already knows - therefore it cannot “add” to psychoanalysic theory, it can only function to fix basic ideas.
Chris Sands — February 11, 2008 @ 2:59 am
Will probably get into trouble for saying this, but having read Daniel Stern many years ago, have sometimes wondered whether there’s more of a connection between Stern’s meticulousness and Lacan’s attention to duration and speech. Despite the territory, I don’t think Stern’s work has much to do with Ego Psychology.
Sol — February 11, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Yes, what about the brief lacanian therapies project?
I have been unable as yet to find further information
about this project, but it reads as if it has some empirical component?
We could look at Fonagy and Bateman et al and their empirical research
in relation to MBT, which Fonagy says is not psychoanalysis,
but which is informed by psychoanalysis - obviously not Lacanian
and oriented towards ego construction perhaps. their findings at
least can be used in teh empirically dominated public clinics
to argue (’prove’) that longer term work is needed with ‘complex’
clients. They currently find that MBT has equivalent outcomes to DBT.
Can anyone imagine a hypothesis that could be posed in relation to
an empirical research project pertaining to Lacanian psychoanalysis?
Sarah — February 10, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Hello Chris,
I can’t point to a broader debate, and perhaps i am wrong in making the connection between what is going on in France right now and my specific question. I will unravel what i said above. I am less concerned with what goes on in Lacanian circles than what goes on in the university.
What i have seen over the last 10 years is that as long as psychanalysis is connected to “the university,” there is an increasing pressure to turn it into a more empirically oriented science. This is perhaps because “the university” is a business where epirical research is “the money.” Nevertheless, theoretical research is being thrown to one side.
Now psychoanalytic research must contain an empirical component so it resembles research that is normally associated with psychology (ie., hypotheses, populations, questionairres, data collection, statistical analyses, variable, models etc.). Is this still psychoanalysis? Is the reaction in France taking into account what goes on in the university?
Majid — February 10, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
…the subjects’ expressions whcih have to be deciphered, …
Majid — February 10, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
I wonder how it would be possible to approach Lacan empirically!!? By the means of questionairs, interviews?!! Then the results ought to be analysed not by SPSS but by a psychoanalyst from a Lacanian point of view; I think becouse in psychoanalysis we deal with the psyche, and I dout it to be that collective, so you can’t set down statistical rules and formulas in order to analyse any empirically given data. These data can in the last be considered as the subjects’ expressions which have to be, as I said, acording to psychoanalytical principls. I am looking foreward to having your oppinions!
Chris Sands — February 10, 2008 @ 8:17 am
Hi Sarah, could you point to a broader debate by citing other approaches within Lacanian circles?
My understanding is that what’s happening in France has to do with resistance to moves to bring psychoanalysis closer to dominant trends and this includes resistance to legislation. Surely, there’s an enormous pull towards elaboration and a reworking of terms and ideas within what (I think) is sometimes called a ‘pure psychoanalysis’. But isn’t there a world of difference between presentation of case studies, for example, and an analysis of contemporary conditions?
One ‘looks’ at some kind of process to bring about new insight perhaps, while the other looks a set of conditions which effect daily life and work. Don’t we see generally a tendency to ‘objectify’ the cause of desire? Aren’t we happier with objects rather than subjects?
Sarah — February 9, 2008 @ 7:57 pm
I would be interested to know the position individuals take concerning the question of bringing “empirical” research to the work of Lacan.
When i say “empirical research” i specifically refer to the use of questionnaires and interview coding together with statistical analyses which produce results that are understood to “prove,” “inform,” or even “elobrate” [what a mess]the theory of Freud/Lacan. Dispite the fact that there seems to be a petition in the name of Jacques-alain Miller against this type of research [perhaps i’m wrong, perhapts it is the “future” of psychoanalysis] there are several members of the NLS that occupy their time with this type of work. Any reactions?
Sarah — February 9, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
CS: I notice the activity on this site has reduced since a (very) minor dispute? i do hope it’s not a result of that.
Chris Sands — February 1, 2008 @ 7:22 am
Good to hear from you Sol.
How the Australian summer?
Have just posted a new ‘FORUM topic’ with a view to looking at how linking images and text could be improved here.
A weblog could provide reference material, including images.
http://chrissands.wordpress.com/
Sol — January 20, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
a closed ruin
a ruined opening
what a beautiful entry (71)CS
Chris Sands — January 28, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
For some reason attached website sometimes gets re-directed to server at present.
Am referring to ‘antigonesplaster.com’ which can be reached via ‘crow on wire’ icon above.
This site will be updated very shortly and will work alongside ‘blog’, which would make it easier putting images onto ‘forum’ pages.
Chris Sands — January 15, 2008 @ 4:09 am
‘Driving yesterday, on the radio I heard talk of the inevitable loss of digital memories (information, records) as technologies change - then musing this wondered whether we shouldn’t attach this observation to an oporia evident in the art world.
In an age when there’s no time to rework an ‘unwritten’ love story and in ‘the age of digital reproduction’, we only see beyond form and content - the invisible page of a new collaborative field.
Once we saw the ‘museum in ruins’, now we know it’s sometimes closed.’
(after Benjamin, first poem addressed to gaps in a symposium text)
Chris Sands — December 20, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
yes, it is quite here. (r)Hope you have a good Christmas too Sol.
Sol — December 19, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
It’s quiet here.(r)Hope everyone has a good christmas, new year and
possibly a holiday. (r)Is anyone familiar with the work of Jean Imbeault? Or
know of (r)any work in english translation? (r)Or the contact details for the publishers
of (r)Le Fait de l’Analyse in which he (?) had an interesting paper..(r)Thanks.
Read you next year.
ps. strangely, Jampa, what you say about the effect of the ’stalker’s
desire’ on his daughter, could be equated with the ‘displacement’ intended
above (164) (r)
Chris Sands — November 16, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Both sites (here, messageboard) endure a running-out-of-energy-moment.
Have just looked at Marie-HÞ(c)lÞ(r)ne Brousse’s ‘Art, the Avant-Garde and
Psychoanalysis’ in the latest ‘Lacanian Compass’. MHB refers to Freud and
Lacan’s ‘thesis that art precedes the analyst as far as knowledge is concerned;
unconscious knowledge’. I was expecting ‘more’ perhaps, but the more that I
was expecting has to do with the place of contemporary art and the place of
contemporary therapy. MHB refers to discourses of art and psychoanalysis, but
(I felt) there’s nowhere mention of an ‘interplay’ hinted at by (philosopher)
Alain Badiou. Badiou refers to the dominance of psychoanalysis if art lives a
psychoanalysis, but MHB turns the equation back to front. Art walks in front
or starts running in time with an Entracte contemporary with Freud. All
artists should be analysts and all analysts artists … (r)
jampa — November 12, 2007 @ 8:15 am
Chris Sands: Would love to see anything you call beautiful but can’t
always. Stalker for me is an individual’s pursuit of the Real with the prayer
(most devout) that even as he fails, co-opted by his co-pursuants, that the
act of attempt counts for result in his offspring. Romance to an extreme, yet
the telekinetic child is also a promise of reward for courage while cowardice
yields itself in perpetuity. The Sacrifice surrenders the world for a (Nietzschean)
apotheosis- they both testify to love of the uncs son or daughter and self,
narratively and formally.. The child dreams her narrative of the father as he
of her. Not patricide nor infanticide but fraternity, dreamt together (r)violet:
please, you tell me (r)
violet — November 12, 2007 @ 2:04 am
jampa –how does Gnosis stand vs the psycho-analytic real ? Is there
Gnosis after the analyst’s knowledge (S2) vs the real involved with him being
- a semblance - of objet a? (r)
violet — November 11, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
A+L annex (at the forum) (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 10:56 am
extra ps. Jampa - have put image from ‘Climates’ on A+L annexe. showing
off having mastered something new (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Jampa - the object of desire isn’t the object cause of desire (object
a), but methinks you’re referring to something which happens, with Lacan and
Oedipus, when the mother’s desire can’t be named. As well, I was referring to
a mutable position and think you refer to a position which gets stuck, as
with the situation when the mother substitutes her partner with the child.(r)Apart
from what seems like a misreading, I’d like to hear what you have to say
about ‘Stalker’ - or Tarkovsky’s legacy.(r)Have recently watched a film called ‘Climates’
by a Turkish director, Nuri Bilge Ceylan, who certainly takes notice of what
Tarkovsky leaves behind. More than this, this beautiful film struggles
against the backdrop of ‘there’s no such thing as sexual rapport’ in an
artful way. Having said ‘in an artful way’, I mean it has something to say
about Agamden’s lack of magic (as the stalker does). (r)(ps. I know you referred
to legacy in a different way) (r)
jampa — November 10, 2007 @ 10:02 am
Chris Sands: Just popped back in after a while, having watched Stalker
2 days ago for the first time in 20 years and there it is, you with it. (r)The
child as objet a? (r)Seen beside his The Sacrifice, isn’t this a reductionist
betrayal of Tarkovsky’s intent, which is to discuss the issue of legacy or
bequest? Or is there no difference between a loving father and the
assasinated one of the primal horde? Bollocks there isn’t! (r)Many parent/child
relationships are eroticized against the ‘law’ (or you guys’d be out of
business), many the eros is acknowledged and transmuted into loving fraternal
care. Leave aside the question of Gnosis (of which in Tarkovsky you blithely
elide) vs the psycho-analytic real which i’ve been yabberin on about ‘next
door’ (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 4:26 am
Sol. saw the film some time ago, but have very little recollection of
it. (r)Could you refresh my memory? (r)
Sol — November 10, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Hi all, hope you are all well. (r)I’ve been off-line again, and will be,
mostly, until Jan 08. (r)Re children as objet a (CS), has anyone seen (r)the film ‘me,
you and everyone we know’? (r)a very interesting take on infantile (r)sexuality
and its intersection with (adult) Infantile (r)sexuality i think. (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
because it would be nice to figure it out quite easy by yourself (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
why unfortunately lucky? (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
no im not unfortunately (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Chris Sands… Bravooo! you made it, I know it is difficult to understand
the steps of what to do - but once you get it it’s nice to have a place in
here where to post an image (r)
Chris Sands — November 9, 2007 @ 5:29 am
dear Violet, will take it ALL back, as have posted image in annexe
without help! (r)It’s an Araki photo, not the one I wanted, but good enough for
the moment. (r)Will do my best to develop the above notions (Agamben, Badiou)
later today. (r)
Chris Sands — November 9, 2007 @ 5:07 am
Who’s CSS? (r) Have posted something on annexe, which may need Perfume’s
assistance as before (with Agamben thumbnail). (r)The picture is an Araki photo.
There may be some delay, as only url is showing at the moment. (r)The point of
showing the new thumbnail has to do with Agamben’s recently published ‘Profanations’
and wanting to link the ‘profanations concept’ (r)to Badiou’s notion of the ‘artist’s
inexistence’. Agamben implies a necessary profaning of fashion and
pornography, which may be evident in some Araki images, but would want to
develop this (with reference to Badiou) when or if the image can be
available. (r)
alice — November 9, 2007 @ 4:12 am
I was expecting lucky to take on the explaining of what CSS is supposed
to do after violet… complicated (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 2:16 am
so you are not a computer nerd, lucky? (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 1:00 am
me i have no idea about this stuff im a million miles away (r)
violet — November 8, 2007 @ 11:58 pm
I am trying that CSS, or maybe you lucky… put up an image in the forum,
are you saying my telling of the steps is not clear enough? (r)
lucky — November 8, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
re. the antigones hre plaster. there is absolutely no point in putting
notions in our heads about apparitions or cosmic visitation rights. hers that
is (r)
violet — November 6, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
CS = and that’s all that ever showed ; the address. I fixed it. Now go
to http://www.amp.uni-koeln.de/amp_aktuell/img/agamben.jpg (r)and see how dragging the image
with the arrow directly from the internet page into any other one it makes a
new page with an address, and this is the address you need to put in between
[img] and [img/]. i.e. (r)[img]http://www.amp.uni-koeln.de/amp_aktuell/img/agamben.jpg[img/] (r)try
it (r)
Chris Sands — November 6, 2007 @ 2:24 am
Oh good. When I first looked at this, only the address was showing. So,
in fact, I attached the address by saving the web page in the first place (as
dragging from one page to another not possible with safari). (r)
violet — November 5, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
with a Mac and Safari — there is your Agamben image in the forum - art
and Lacan symposia annex (r)
Chris
Sands — November 5, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
No, can’t do
it! (r)It could be that I’m using a mac and with ’safari’ you can only load one
page at a time. (r)Then, when I drag the image to the desktop, it alters the
address to the address of my desktop etc. (r)If I’m right, image loading might
only work at LacInk. (r)
violet — November 4, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
CS - of the art
@ lacan symposia annex, how is the uploading of the images doing? (r)I’ll write
the steps here so that anyone that wants to uploadr an image can do it, (r)the
address of the white dove in the first page is [img]http://www.antigonesplaster.com/Resources/pigforew1.jpeg[/img] (r)(you
drag the image of the dove directly into any other internet page, and as you
do this it takes the address with it (r)now you press “submit” (r)
Chris
Sands — November 4, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
But she can smile? (r)Not
necessarily like a field of golden daffodils? (r)
violet — November 4, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
but poppies he
suffers (r)
Chris
Sands — November 4, 2007 @ 8:16 am
’soagreeable’
is a find (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
violets
soagreeable poppies not (r)
violet — November 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
yes, chatting
is dope… (r)
Chris
Sands — November 2, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Lucky, in a
book called ‘Profanations’, Giorgio Agamben quotes Walter Benjamin and Mozart
to make the case that young children often feel sad because they can’t make
‘magic’ … (r)If this is true, children nevertheless often occupy the place of
the object a for many adults. We see the child elevated to the place of magic
in Tarkovsky’s ‘Stalker’. (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
just keep tal
king (r)
Chris
Sands — November 2, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
It’s sometimes
difficult to know what to say Lucky (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
chatting is
dope don cha tink? n/a (r)
lucky — October 24, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
i dont know
what that is with computer games . i was going to say atisavoir first but
…then i put that instead it seemed like a better idean or meaner at least (r)
alice — October 24, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
lucky - is it
the save function you addressing, as in anti-save like in computer games…? (r)
lucky — October 22, 2007 @ 8:22 am
never… no its
just not a good idea according to anti save (r)
Sol
— October 22, 2007 @ 2:46 am
pity (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
this is all
really weird. i know im not the center of tension (r)
alice — October 21, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
forum closed?
forum is taken, which is a different thing… not closed (r)
lucky
— October 21, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
coming from
next door i want to say those numbers are trick or were approaching for some (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 10:08 am
since forum
closed back in time, i will say here tha gypsies told me in no way unmistakable
to get the hell outa ny when they looked at the palm of my hand at i thinlk
its washington square if ur lookin for reliable advice. of course i couldnt
understand wtf they were saying since we gidnt speak same tongue.but than god
cuz i got sick of yankers and then i found more everywhere i go (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 9:29 am
you know,the sole
reason. (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 9:16 am
well that better
not be all thats at stake, cause its not funny (r)
Chris Sands — October 21, 2007 @ 4:24 am
But this question seems to have to do with a suitable group or place for pieces of work and at times, thinking about a possible online cartel, we seem to have shifted towards ‘ideals’ - and away from the place of the object a.
Am looking at Reading Seminar X1 (Feldstein, Fink, Jaanus) and what interests me looking at this collection of seminars has to do with a moment in Lacan’s teaching when things change. Anne Dunand (in her ‘End of Analysis’ chapters) refers to the break with an IPA perception of the position of the analyst. She writes ‘If the analyst’s role (eg. Lacan’s) is to occupy the place of the object a, what has to fail is the maintainance of the analyst in the position of an ideal’. (p.245)
Later on (and particularly interesting to me), she writes ‘His strivings to contruct another basis for psychoanalytic praxis are linked to his desire to create a purely lay group, not only attracting people who are not medical doctors, as Freud had tried to do, but also introducing people who do not practice analysis as a profession, non-analysts.’
Then a last quote (p.246) ‘In analysis, the analyst is at first put in the place of the ideal, and the subject loves the analyst and him or herself, as the ideal ego relates to the ego-ideal. But the subject does not obtain satisfaction in analysis at that level. The analyst has to situate himself or herself and regulate transference in such a way that the greatest possible distance is maintained between the ideal and object a.’
lucky — October 20, 2007 @ 10:06 am
your video, like
ur mom died or something too soon (r)
Chris Sands — October 20, 2007 @ 8:59 am
Lucky, what stopped
too early? (r)
lucky — October 20, 2007 @ 7:18 am
the video stopped
too early thats really worse… (r)
Chris Sands — October 19, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
I think we
waited for Sarah to come back, now we seem to be picking on her. And there
seem to be problems whichever way we turn. With an online cartel, there is
the issue of privacy and numbers. But ‘going private’ leaves out the role of the
plus one.(r)Sarah, this site and others here are supported by LacInk and
expressions of retiscence probably carry a sense of gratitude. In your
absence, people here began to come up with their own cartel linked ideas.
Whatever happens, this is a good place to make some ‘introductions’. There is
time to do this. (r)
Sol
— October 19, 2007 @ 2:57 am
But for me, in my
experience of a cartel, (r)everyone works, it is not just a conversation, but each (r)has
their own particular questions that they work up (r)and put in to the cartel,
that links them into (r)a new kind of question (r)
alice — October 17, 2007 @ 5:02 am
CS - “… at present,
mostly just one person ‘walks the boards’ in the forum.” (r)it’s not only one
person in the forum, it’s the one person that wants to have the last word… (r)
Chris Sands — October 16,
2007 @ 2:14 am
You’re right but you’ve also put your finger on the problem. I think
Admin, at one point, suggests an online cartel is not quite the real thing.
Meeting up would be best, but as this isn’t possible, we’re left with sorry
semblances. Nevertheless I still haven’t forgotten Derrida’s earthquake or
the thought that for the FIRST TIME EVER, it’s possible to live and work
anywhere. This ‘anywhere’ must have some bearing on long lost Sarah’s cartel
looking at Freud and Lacan’s perception of time and SPACE. (r)
Sol — October 16, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Don’t they have eyes to listen? (r)and fingers to speak? (r)
Chris Sands — October 14,
2007 @ 7:15 am
yes of course, but then we’d need to know whether Perfume or Admin, and
surely we’d need to ask? (r)Are my ‘convolutions’ getting in the way of a little
revolution here? (r)I noticed what you were saying about drive and instinct
‘next door’ and have come across interesting chapters in ‘Reading Seminar X1 which address
an instinct bound to needs, with the drive having to do with exceptions (to
needs) and an eros and sublimations bound to our immortalities. (r)If an online
cartel looks at what Lacan calls the four fundamentals of analysis, including
the drive, then Sem XI or an aspect of it, might be a good starting place.
This seminar has never been far away from the life of the symposium. (r)
by sol — October 14, 2007 @ 2:52 am
isn’t it ‘admin’ or maybe ‘perfume’ in this empty chair? (r)
Chris Sands — October 10, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
(Twisting and turning) I turned demand (sometimes) encountered in the
context of therapy into the possibility of a ‘question’ or (a cartel(o))
topic here, but following direction suggested above, we might begin with
‘question-s’ and topic-s, but might also want to consider the ‘plus one’
position (????)
Chris Sands — October 10, 2007 @ 9:29 am
Many thanks Admin and very helpful, particularly emphasis on a product
which in fact amounts to four products when the cartel is made up of four
members. As well, noticed reference to the role of a ‘plus one’
admin — October 9, 2007 @ 2:20 am
CS, at the site of WAP World’s Association of Psychoanalysis, you can find
some writing about what a cartel is: http://www.wapol.org/en/index.html turn
on the English menu and copy and paste this address. That’s the way to get it
in English. If oyu go directly it will appear in Spanish
http://www.wapol.org/en/lasescuelas/lasescuelas.asp?elcartel.html
Chris Sands — October 8, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
dear Admin, we’ve been busy inviting Everyone to the party, but now you
suggest we’ve been partying for a while already. ‘We’ve’ come up with the
online cartel idea and a cartel CAN’T be inclusive. So we call it a cartello,
possibly recognising the limitations of a public site. This site began life
with a premise tucked in between the languages of contemporary art and Lacan
and the last few weeks suggest frustration or ‘growing pains’ or a change of
direction or ‘much ado about nothing’ … If a demand is sometimes visible in a
clinical setting, perhaps we might expect a question here. I think there was
one, but the question went away and attempts to come up with another seem
chaotic. If we go back to a question which had to do with a place for artists
and clinicians sharing ideas, assuming something could have worked here, then
the cartel idea is a useful afterthought. With contemporary art, surely
there’s already too much of the imaginary and with a group setting, there has
to be some way of limiting its effects. Art can do this perhaps when it’s
grounded in a project, a collaboration or a moment when disparate parts seem
to come together - through ‘the work of art’. If a questions remains, it
seems about a cartel. A cartel possibly takes something here further or it
takes something here in a different direction. If the symposium is somehow
set up to limit something by having a title, outside of it, a cartel could
limit the chaos of the imaginary. I think it takes a question.
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
b i dont know what to dobut…
admin — October 8, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
I already said what I would do, but let’s see what everyone else has to
say >>why not do your cartelo in here and if you want to show some images
go to the forum, CS already has an annexe
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
but aLL the public is allowed or how do u choose?
admin — October 8, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
this place is already quite exclusive, I am very careful to not let the
SPAM in… why not do your cartelo in here and if you want to show some images
go to the forum, CS already has an annexe
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 9:22 am
thank god the terraine has shifted cuz i was getting sick a little of the
old topic/ nice open outside instead of a room of ones own which i cud never
bring myself to read altho its better than not ever having one i guess whwen
u need to get away. but thats noy the topic ill tell you if i get an idea id
like to put up here,but thanks butane cheekos
jampa — October 8, 2007 @ 6:05 am
Aren’t we lucky? You mean he’s multiple now? Now i’m in trouble! No! CS
has rescued me often violet, you all have, and not just me i’d wager. Can we
please not wonder for ever about formats for el cartello? Can i nominate
lucky to pick a topic, admin a venue? Wondered about acephallic too Chris,
whether a body speech or a body of posts without director
violet — October 8, 2007 @ 4:18 am
Yes Jampa, I’m here, missing you as every time you disappear without a
trace, or maybe it is that you become invisible, that you write with lemon -
lemon that becomes invisible unless you know how to light it up… aren’t we
lucky to have CS rescue you……
alice — October 8, 2007 @ 2:42 am
I didn’t mean to hurt anybody, I’m sorry CS, but you know how things can
get crazed all of a sudden… in any case case a cartelo is not a cartel so
it’s to us to invent th rules. The nice thing with the forum is thta we can
upload images in there, and maybe movies, let me find out about that… still
iI like it in here…
Chris Sands — October 7, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Now everybody’s ‘playing group therapy’ and how can it be an acephallic
messageboard either, as all that goes on next door? Here, we might look at
what can be the case between the languages of contemporary art and
psychoanalysis. After all, there is that thread with Lacanian Ink. Is there a
topic here which might also work in a public setting?? If the ‘cartello idea’
only works with a limited membership and it may do, we might ask LacInk if we
can site an online cartel in the forum …? Could it work? Could there be some
adjustments? The forum was an attempt, I think, to build in some ‘online
responsibilities’, when the whole thing was prone to sabotage. It seems, at
present, mostly just one person ‘walks the boards’ in the forum. If the forum
isn’t working, it makes the online cartel idea even more interesting, but it
would need to be focussed. In the first place I think we need a question and
questions are hard to find. If we can find a good one, we can then approach
Admin … ?????
lucky — October 7, 2007 @ 11:28 am
paid for?
jampa — October 7, 2007 @ 8:24 am
So, after all, my absent head is no bother. I always knew it somehow. Ah love,
be kind to me. Traffic direction: Sol, write invitations, Lucky, lick stamps.
Chris, you’re canapes. Violet, Radiate. Alice, wwonder. Surplus, adorn. Paul,
bear witness. I’ll pray without words as the master commends
alice — October 7, 2007 @ 7:24 am
yes Jampa!!!! please come back, this is an acephallic messageboard…….Sarah
is to blame for Lucky’s explosion, i guess, and Lucky is to blame for Sarah’s
disappearance because he shoots himself in the foot, and he shoots himself in
the obsessive.. I think this is what frightened Sarah, Lucky chased Sarah
away…… someone has to direct the traffic
jampa — October 6, 2007 @ 9:55 am
…himself in the foot… and sometimes me in the obsessive.
jampa — October 6, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Dears! Missed you! Found Chris’s e-mail while deleting 2-for-1 offers on…
never mind about that. Did notice that Sarah’s talk of cartels prompted Lucky
to explode, which perhaps, if i’ve read him right, has to do with an
insistence on Lacan in the clinic rather than (more) Lacanian discourse here
or anywhere else. Which in turn co-incided with Sarah’s disappearance. So,
Sarah, please come back, lucky regularly goes bang hoping for a telling
intervention. Personally i love him- i presume him to know- while he shoots
himself in the foot. Perhaps its a case of ‘build it, and she will come’. Its
a worthy proposal yes?; shouldn’t the cartello proceed here, publicly, on
time and space as if there were no empty chair, or presume it to be full?
Chris Sands — October 5, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Sol, Jampa once contacted me directly, but I got no reply when I tried the
email address a few weeks ago. He’s in Oz so, you should know him! I thought
your reference to Derrida interesting in the context of what a ‘cartello’ can
be about. The sense seems a long way away from JA Miller’s insistence on live
sessions - or another insistence on a set of potentially symbolic
co-ordinates at the start of sessions - which in turn seem a long way from
the late Lacan of Joycean symptoms or even the emergence of ‘contemporary
symptoms’. The cartello could be ambitious. We could provide a prize for the
most ambitious idea, which could be membership of the Lacanian world’s first
cartello.
Sol — October 5, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Yes where is Jampa? He (?) should come back too.. Did you call Jampa CS?
and the person who suggested I look at das ding for objet a? (thankyou) -
them too..was that Lucky? or Paul?
Sol — October 4, 2007 @ 8:21 am
actually, I live in the southern volcanic highlands.. usually cold, and
snow sometimes. but thanks for summoning me.. I would like to ask Sarah more
about her initial questions too..Sarah?
How do you mean “in” the objet a alice?
To me, we start each with some questions, worked until they have a
relationship to each other. Then, work on them, bringing together what we
have done periodically.
Is there a way to attach documents to messages on this board, so that it
doesn’t take too much space here, but remains here? Can those documents then
be annotated by others and remain circulating? Of course by documents, I
don’t say they aren’t visual, or a combination of visual and text
or..whatever.
But I am happy with other and any or many ways of approaching this
possibility.
Surplus — October 4, 2007 @ 8:14 am
CS - there is no rush……. no rush at all We want Sarah, and we want Jampa,
right?
Chris Sands — October 4, 2007 @ 2:51 am
Alice, we should move on, but I don’t think we should rush passed Sarah’s
time and space in her absence … at least, not just yet. We summoned Sol from
the crusty outback, we might try doing the same with Sarah. Give Sarah a
shout Alice before she turns into our very own lost object!
alice — October 4, 2007 @ 1:14 am
1) we call it cartello…….
2) we investigate in the objet a
2) we do it in here?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
- flung, fling - farther, further -
I came upon this - Derrida speaking at/of the Freud archives - re
private/public and the virtual..I hope not too lengthy for here:
“One can dream or speculate about the earthquakes which would have made the landscape of the psychoanalytic archive unrecognizable for the past century if, to limit myself to these indications, Freud, his contemporaries, collaborators and immediate disciples, instead of writing thousands of letters by hand, had had access to……E-mail…..
As I am not able to do this, on account of the ever archaic organization of our colloquia, of the time and space at our disposal, I will limit myself to a remark: this archival earthquake would not have limited itself to the secondary recording, to the conservation of the history of psychoanalysis; it would have transformed this history from top to bottom and in the most initial inside of its production, in its very events….
… the indicative value of E mail is privileged in my opinion for a more
important and obvious reason: because electronic mail today, .. is on the way
to transfroming the entire public and private space of humanity, and first of
all the limit between the private, the secret, and the public or phenomenal”
from Jacques Derrida Mal d’Archive Une Impression Freudienne Paris: Galilee
1995
Chris Sands — October 2, 2007 @ 4:27 am
In recognition of the need for scraps and a ‘cartello’, we could call ourselves
‘the cartello of the far flung’. Are we, I wonder, mostly all perservering in
far flung places?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 2:04 am
Sarah’s idea had the word repetition didn’t it? yes, the plus one, the one
in the empty chair?
Cartello is good!
I read a a paper the other night, it was late, and all that I remember was of
a girl, hiding under a table where the women were kneading bread; the little
piece of leaven remainder, repeatedly left in the bowl, and the girl stealing
some..
admin — October 2, 2007 @ 5:11 am
CS –we’ve had cartels online, of 5 people, the oine that lasted longer was
in Spanish… they work for a while but it’s not the same as when the five
people meet periodically, so that you see their faces… I think we could try
discussing a topic in here. Alice’s subject is quite accurate since we have
the Encounter in April…
Chris Sands — October 2, 2007 @ 2:46 am
I thought Sarah’s idea interesting because it caused a stir. With or
without Sarah we could revisit a stirring topic and say what we think it was.
Was it time and space with Freud and Lacan? Now I’m also wondering about your
idea Alice, wondering whether your suggestion gives body to the cause of our
desire. There’s a suggestion that the play that Freud calls psychoanalysis
involves a certain timelessness and if this is the case, we might assume
Sarah’s dreaming and needs her sleep having come up with a smashing idea.
Lucky used the word ‘rerun’ when she wasn’t sure about something and I still
think we should rerun the idea of an online cartel, before clarifying who’s
in it, where it could be and what the topic is.
Dear Admin or Perfume, is there some experience of online cartels at LacInk?
Have they worked before or have they worked elsewhere?
alice — October 2, 2007 @ 1:22 am
and where is Sarah, proposing the cartel, with the fresh ideas CS talks
about… now what?
alice — October 2, 2007 @ 1:24 am
good question Sol! I was only telling of the way they do things at L’_cole
de la Cause, and it’s been this way since Lacan… the cartels are tied to the
school, there’s even a small book with the different names , in groups of 5
or 6 - one is the plus-one…. so you know who are the people that have beeen
investigating one topic or the othe oin their own…
But we can do things the way we want… and instead of calling it cartel we can
call it a cartello….The topic for the next Encounter - in Buenios Aires ,
April 2007 is “objet a in the clinical structure” there probably be
information around… so this would my suggestion, to talk about “objet a in
the clinical structure” and do we want to do it here, in this forum, another
suggestion would be to use a forum where we can put up images, or maybe use
both…
lucky — October 2, 2007 @ 1:24 am
i dont know; is it cause we live in a privatized worl with prizes!?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 12:28 am
why does it need to be private?
lucky — October 1, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
purple soft cloth with a brain wrapped up inside
Chris Sands — October 1, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
What does my thinking cap look like Lucky?
lucky — October 1, 2007 @ 11:07 am
good idea chris now you have your drinking cap on
Chris Sands — October 1, 2007 @ 7:28 am
Alice, I think you mention there having been one (in Spanish) some time
ago, linked to online LacInk, but I think it would need to be set up
separately, rather than be part of a public forum. We might ask Sarah, then
Perfume what they think … ?
alice — October 1, 2007 @ 1:45 am
what is a cartel? Much as I know it is a private group of 5 or 6 people
that together study a subject… how then can you imagine we would do this in a
public forum?
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
i think i get it noe da da
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
If a founding act can be a suggestion then can we assume making a start?
Sol — September 20, 2007 @ 11:49 am
the founding act was Sarah’suggestion
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I’m assuming a cartel starts with membership, with a topic and with
meetings, and if not meetings a way of communicating …
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 5:52 am
i dont understand the last point…
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
i was just gonna say ‘please please come gack”
violet — September 29, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
lucky got all excited excited with the cartel idea…..
alice — September 29, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
what’s the matter with you lucky?
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
GET HER OUT OF HERE ‘ im warning you sweetley ley abogado a a da da da d a
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 5:25 am
yes
alice — September 29, 2007 @ < 2:22 am
lucky - in your famous phrase… does M: stand for Mother?
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 4:05 am
why they kep sending me back here want me to make essage ok . thats sad
are cats similar to psychotics?is that what your saying. of course they have
much more sense.
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 11:18 am
i dont have any friends
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
ive got something priceless for the cartelm i think; ‘ your father has
nothing to do with me, my grandfather; but my father has more to do with you
( the mother) than me . M: “Yes because he was MY Hussband!!!!!!!!!!!”
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Ratfink they call me, myself and i I do
alice — September 26, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
indeed… cats do better than psychotics
lucky — September 26, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
no/ its one of the best things ive heard in my whole life Sol!
lucky — September 26, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
well this sounds like a cali cartel calla that is
Sol — September 26, 2007 @ 1:24 am
it’s a joke about boundaries for me, and cats being to do with death - (9
lives) and escaping laws…(always land on their feet) I’m sorry not to explain
it, I thought it was a famous joke.
lucky — September 24, 2007 @ 10:55 am
this sounds highly suspicious volks better rerun
Chris Sands — September 22, 2007 @ 5:06 am
There’s time to think about a ‘cartel’, how it might work, who might be in
it etc. but thinking about possible material too is interesting. Alain
Badiou’s work in recent years and his references to contemporary art seem
relevant to the topic, but especially his ‘Handbook of Inaesthetics’ (with
its interpretation of the work of James Joyce’s secretary). If we start
considering time, it would hard to ignore film. Alexander Sukorov’s might be
worth a look at. ‘Father and Son’ is an important film, I think, so too the
recently released, but earlier, ‘Mother and Son’. Sukorrov’s subjectivity is
disarming at first, but as we are led in somehow (literally with ‘Russian
Ark’), a timelessness subverts the background noise of narratives and in a
way these films reinvent the shock of (discovering) psychoanalysis.
Sol — September 22, 2007 @ 12:49 am
I am very interested in temporality. I have tracked many of Freud’s ideas
about time (and space) over the last few years. I would be interested to
focus upon, and work on, and discuss, particular ideas and papers that people
propose. Lacan’s, sure, and perhaps others?
A moment of Freud (1920) on time: In Beyond the pleasure principle, Freud
reconsiders and refines his formulation of the perceptual system that he has
constructed in the Interpretation of Dreams. He proposes that the sense
organs take up limited information from the plethora of external stimuli, acting
as a protective shield. In this taking up, and shielding, a rhythm is
implicit. (I think of the blind spot -in the eye - and the cat’s eye joke..)
From this, Freud writes that a discussion of Kant's theory of a priori
knowledge, specifically, the proposition that time and space are 'necessary
forms of thought', is timely. Biological/perceptual rhythms might structure
time (Aristotle?).
Relevant to us here perhaps, he writes that Psychoanalysis is in the position
to embark on this discussion due to the discovery that unconscious thought is
timeless: atemporal, unaffected by time, and unable to have the idea of time
applied to it. Time is an exclusively conscious phenomenon, which derives
from the perceptual system Freud argues at this time - though later, he makes
other propositions.. Sol.
alice — September 22, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
I even missed the cat’s slits……….. if it wasn’t Sol to say it I would be
very suspicious about slits in cat’s eyes exactly… on top of the eyes?
Sol — September 22, 2007 @ 2:28 am
isn’t it funny that cats have slits in their skin exactly on top of where
the eyes are.. (see the joke book by Freud)
lucky — September 22, 2007 @ 2:14 am
somehow i missed the cats eye joke, can someone tell it?
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 10:41 am
Alice, posted email to Jampa, but don’t know if the email address is still
good. Don’t have Sol’s address, but have just put something on messageboard.
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 9:19 am
thats very rude or irresponsible of them for not partaking in whatever
this thing is. A study group on a specimen or what?
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 6:15 am
should say speak for yourself wrong place
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 6:05 am
no they are sun bayhing
alice — September 20, 2007 @ 5:14 am
CS - any luck with finding jampa and Sol?
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
Will email Jampa who once sent me something, but would suggest putting a
message on messageboard next door for Sol to look at symposium.
alice — September 18, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Chris - do you have a way of getting hold of “sol” and getting hold of
“jampa”……? they could be interested in sarah’s project, I think
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
No i have not read the text.
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Did you see the JA Miller text ‘Introduction to the Erotics of Time’ in
LacInk 24/25 ?
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 10:12 am
indeed Chris i posted my question in a field where the question of art is
perhaps central, but unfortunately the question of art may be slightly
outside the way i would explore repetition and temporality, for now - just
for now.
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 9:47 am
re. ‘i would be pleased to hear any ideas about other texts that would
help tie such a cartel together’
Listening to this is so refreshing but questions like this can surely be more
than text based, particularly if the question of art is included(?) With
contemporary art, we see something flat (’two dimensional’) giving way to
preoccupations which involve durations (installations, video). and when a
social dimension is built into the work (this way), we also seem to be posing
a question, making a demand. At the time of Seminar X1, showing work possibly
forced a ‘twosome’ towards the symbolic, but a current concern for the
temporal might be ‘laying down’ a politics of art. Could a cartel include the
question of art?
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 8:51 am
alice, i have some experience yes, but i have never taken a topic out of
lacan and chosen texts, normally i would just take on a particular seminar. i
am aware of the seminars in which repetition and temporality are worked on,
but i thought it messy to use isolated chunks of seminars to explore this
topic, no?
alice — September 18, 2007 @ 12:28 am
Lacan brings in repetition as one of the Four Fundamental Concepts in
Seminar XI. On temporality he expands with respect to the unconscious - there
is no time in the UCS… And we have Freud's famous title Analysis Terminable
and Interminable…. Alain Badiou adresses it in his The Formulas of
l'_tourdit…. Sarah , do you have a previous experience with cartels?
Sarah — September 17, 2007 @ 11:47 am
It is not a particular seminar i want to look at for a cartel. I want to
examine repetition and temporality as a topic and focus on specific texts
across the earlier and later Lacan for this topic. However, choosing texts is
not easy. The Purloined letter, The instance of the letter, & Logical
time and the assertion of anticipated certainty are three older texts that
come to mind, and perhaps it would be interesting to combine these with some
later texts. i would be pleased to hear any ideas about other texts that
would help tie such a cartel together.
Chris Sands — September 17, 2007 @ 4:24 am
I would be delighted!
alice — September 16, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Sarah - I know some years ago there was a cartel in this site, but I am
afraid it was in Spanish… sounds like such a good idea to do one in English.
I am sure CS - according with what he says in the last messages - would be
delighted. We need an S1
alice — September 16, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
CS - I don’t completly recall what I wrote in the deleted message… but I
recalll the train of my thoughts going from re-reading gal in message 82
about the “self being the One,” thinking there actually is the “oneself”,
0ne-self… and then going into read about “the one to lay down the gaze” and
this one is not the artist but the viewer… what I know about laying down of
the gaze is that it is in direct relation with the elucubration coming up -
with ” I see”, which means I stopped looking…
Sarah — September 16, 2007 @ 10:09 am
Does anyone know of an online cartel? i can only find them in spanish,
looking for an english speaking one
Chris Sands — September 16, 2007 @ 4:55 am
dear Admin, in cleaning up duplicated messages, we might have lost Alice’s
last message
Chris Sands — September 15, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
But, reference to a ’self analysis’ was reference to going beyond what, I
think, Freud meant by self analysis. But in Bruce Fink’s (new) ‘Fundamentals
of Psychoanalytic Technique’, there’s also reference to processes
supplementing an analysis (p.57) which he calls ’self analysis’. Later on, he
refers to self analysis always falling short of analysis ((’True self
analysis is impossible, otherwise there would be no (neurotic) illness-
Freud)), but I was talking personally, referring to geographical predicaments
(which Bruce Fink addresses, ‘phone sessions’) and doing my best to talk from
the place of an artist. When an artist puts work somehow ‘in the public
domain’, he or she not only turns into the viewer, but encounters a world
which is cruel-restrained-indifferent. The other day, I came across something
Alain Badiou said about love, ones, twos and multiplicities. I’ve forgotten
the line, but there was poetry in it! But something about love as two
striving towards a multiplicity suggests Joyce rather than Freud (by way of
there’s no such thing as sexual rapport) - and this epiphany forecloses the
position of the artist. When you think about it, the artist is very trusting
or very stupid - putting work in the public domain. If the public domain
implies the symbolic, what is an artist ‘demanding’ from ‘the art world’? By
installing ‘demand’ when work is shown, does the work of art reinvent the
subject of the unconscious in a world of retail therapy and imperatives to
enjoy?
gal — September 14, 2007 @ 11:58 am
Self would be the One, or the very act of jouissance locking you up again.
Jouissance is of the One. To get out of that cage Lacan invented the Other.
which can be an other, like me, yet is more than an other - my neighbour,
etc. In any case the one to lay down the gaze, as I understand it, is not the
artist but the viewer - the spectator.
Chris Sands — September 9, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
It seems to me that with Seminar X1, Lacan compels the artist to look at
what happens when the work is shown - or we might deduce, the work of art
includes the process of ‘laying down the gaze’. There is no imperative here
obviously, and Alain Badiou, for one, points to work which rubs up against an
‘inexistence’, when each new piece is measured against the state and art, if
not the state of art. But, as artists, if we must show something of ourselves
from time to time - there is perhaps something to show close up to therapy
and psychoanalysis. I have a question in mind and I’d like some help drawing
it out. I make two assumptions and will have to go back to them. One is
dreamt out of Seminar X1 and the other assumes there may be a general
interest in psychoanalysis, in parts of the art world. I may be dreaming on
both accounts, but if the work of art has something to do with showing work,
perhaps from time to time, and contemporary art’s not fooled by the embers of
a surrealism - can the work of art be more than a ’self analysis’?? When the
work is shown, can the work be close to the experience of an analysis? Who
will know? Will the analyst doubt it? Will the artist who’s been through an
analysis know? I seem to have come across a suggestion somewhere that
analyst, Marie-Helene Brousse is looking at ‘this question’ from the
perspective of the analyst, but know of nothing published.
Terry1 — August 18, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
Just a little note to thankyou for your work Chris in hosting this. Your
efforts are appreciated.
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
Perhaps a little prompted by the passing of Bergman, have pasted parts of a text below (parts 7 and 1),
which may somehow become a 'basis' for two short films. In this instance, the
text is a first cut, but it's also part of a longer text. Putting it on view
in this way, effects an ongoing (video) process. The internet provides an opportunity
hinted at in Seminar X1 - where 'laying down the gaze' is part of the work of
art. The text and one of the films may be called 'THE MORNING AFTER
BLOOMSDAY'. The key term above is 'basis'. Showing ongoing work may lead to a
response, but video somehow seems a social process and the product carries a
writing.
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
7. Eva stood on the bed cracking melons with her foot and Dick lay there
looking at the sky. Above the pulse in the room, there's an angst. A little
angst! Eva asks 'How long's the morning after Bloomsday?' But Dick's staring
at walls.
She continues 'You can see how long it takes watching TV in a hotel room in
France, but there's no conversation.' 'The words go by unnoticed.' He's
looking at six women in Breton dress; all looking the other way and it's
almost too hot to wear anything.
With a story 'nothing's sacred'. On a boat earlier, Dick uses the term
'alienation' in his notebook, but can't see how alienation is linked to
'sublimation' and how to make sense of it later that day. Eva would tell him
he uses 'lazy words' and should by using any one of them 'once in a blue
moon' Dick's a mess sticking to bed covers. As the light dims, he imagines
losing his jacket, the one on the back of the chair - and, looks up to Breton
women wearing it and little else.
When he told his story there was an obvious objection here. How could a group
of women be wearing one jacket and little else? Given the chance he'd say
'They were all looking away from the camera, taking turns to try on his
jacket and of course, it's midsummer.'
8. Can a mini novel waiver between restlessness with icons, Joyce and
Beckett, and a concern for alienation, which is not entirely a psychoanalytic
concept? There are further notes.
At the risk of turning into one of his heroes for the morning, Dick
approaches someone who looks like Monsieur B. We can assume he's no longer in
a hotel room. Monsieur B asks 'Would you talk to me under normal
circumstances?'
Eva is almost lost for words, but Dick censures her for 'taking things too
literally.' 'A gap opens up between art and therapy when you put them
together, but I imagine somehow something working in different ways - without
being too delusional.' She says 'When you see them in different ways, I
suppose there's something odd, but you have to speak first to this Monsieur
B. for the sake of script and video.'
But to make things worse, Dick thinks back to when daring Dick first
discovered how to be daring.
He describes a vegetarian restaurant in Chalk Farm, his first wife and an
evening with a woman his wife met modelling at St Martin's school of art. The
woman’s a little younger and was off to Vancouver. He remembers she talked
mainly to his wife.
Eva says 'There may be a little anxiety here or tension.' He says 'Of course
a little tension.' 'But you don't remember her name which is one source of
anxiety and worse still, if you do remember her name you may be moving in the
direction of that first wife.'
He does look a little anxious. 'I can pick it all up I suppose, the
restaurant, Chalk Farm and reference to Beckett, but who cares. Artists avoid
nostalgia researching their material.' She says 'And artists should live on
their own and decide when there's enough material to keep them going!'
He was shy in Chalk Farm and now shy again moving around another beautiful
woman, who might - also - turn a parting gesture into the Pacific with brown
rice and tahini. 'With Sylvia Plath's lines still fresh on every corner,
there'd be more to regret later on.'
Eva knew the story, but wasn't sure Dick would get anywhere bringing Joyce
and Beckett into things. Dick concluded 'For years afterwards, he told the
story of a woman who turned around and spoke to anyone in the restaurant -
and then went off to Vancouver.' She became an icon, like Beckett and Joyce.
An icon for impressionable young people, but especially Dick.
violet — July 21, 2007 @ 12:44 am
Lacan’s Nightingale” is not in Perfume’s blog, it is in Lacan.dot.com
blog: http://www.lacan.com/blog/index.html<
Perfume’s blog is at : http://www.lacan.com/perfume/blog/
Chris Sands — July 22, 2007 @ 5:15 am
(J) - Lacan’s insistence on the effects of language and speech perhaps in
some way predicts the emergence of so called conceptual art in the early
1970’s and now some analysts look to contemporary arts exemplary ‘lalangue’.
JA Miller has much to say about the effects of language and I was ’surprised’
over the weekend by a description in ‘Lacan’s Nightgale’ (see Perfume’s blog)
of the subject or subjectivity as a moment when an individual falters,
confronted by language’s tendency to generalise, categorise, classify … Art
is naiive if Lacan’s ‘lalangue’ is new.
jampa — July 22, 2007 @ 2:42 am
A psychoanalytically savvy art, such as yours Chris, has it pre-digested
anticipated ‘interventions’, in the clinical sense, or does it invite them,
given the millieu to which its offered? To what extent, i’m wondering, does
art invite analysis, to what extent does an analyst’s art ‘axiomatize’
analysis? given that art, to some extent, is always naiive of of its
criticism. Or is it? Perhaps all informed art is more naiive than it thinks?!
Chris Sands — July 22, 2007 @ 7:11 am
The Chapman brother’s work can be found on the net and Gerard Wajcman’s
’ship of glass’ photo is on Josefina’s blog
Sol — July 22, 2007 @ 7:01 am
Who are The Chapmans? and this glass house? can I view it somewhere?
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 11:07 am
I would like to understand a little bit more what you say, Jampa. What is
meant by intervention in this case? We might say ‘the act of psychoanalysis’
or the act of putting in a show, let’s say. Then, what does Joyce forbid?
Does the ‘jouissance’ of Joyce the sinthome forbid anything? Unless the sin
is forbidding an end to writing by taking it too far … in which case there’s
no time for intevention (?)
jampa — July 19, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Art informed by psycho-analysis
does it embody anticipated ‘interventions’? -without inhibiting
interpretation- unlike Joyce, forbidding both does the Ship of Glass,
assimilating its necessary iceberg sail instead like a symptom, in its
fragility and lack, towards the Siren’s rocks? Unlike the Crystal Palace of
self-consciousness, it seems vulnerable, breakable, not pre-deconstructed
Just wonderin
Chris Sands — July 9, 2007 @ 4:20 am
(Paul) Going back to the Chapmans, if I can, could we say that something
lies in wait for latter day conceptual art when it tries to make sense of the
axiom ‘the unconscious is structured like a language’? This sense may be tied
to daydreaming the morning after Bloomsday … an atrocious morning! What can
be atrocious post Goya and Chapmans, may look like too much daydreaming and a
reluctance to base the work of contemporary art on scraps of paper or online
blogs sometimes, seen as an intimacy through Gerard Wajcman’s window … ? A
symposia project, as before, supposes One to anOther, but not seamlessly …?
Chris Sands — June 29, 2007 @ 2:12 am
My question has to do with the function of art for the artist, following
psychoanalysis. If the important part of becoming an analyst is the future
analyst’s own analysis, can the function of art for the artist come close to
this or can it only be like a self analysis? Let’s say, a practice concerned
with contemporary art let’s go of the garret and a shifting from the real
towards a closely observed subjectivity or a tenuous one characterises the
mood of the artist, bound to the inexistence that Badiou describes. And if
this work of art or psychoanalysis and a new subjectivity takes such a long
time, how does a new alliance take shape? Close up to Badiou’s ‘inexistence’,
lurks an exhaustion … perhaps?
lucky —
June 28, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
Rupert/ unbelievable the questionmark doesn’t work!
paul — June 21, 2007 @ 11:04 am
yes CS, your Badiou’s phrase on every life guaranteeing for itself the
enjoyment of atrocity is just so good to address the work of the Chapman’s.
Chris Sands — June 2, 2007 @ 2:58 am
In a text dated 5 may 99, Alain Badiou makes the case for Freud basing a
century defining discovery on no sexual rapport and the text perhaps
anticipates Gerard Wajcman’s Desumblimation. It seems to have some bearing I
think on mention of the work of the Chapman brothers. The paragraph comes
from ‘The Century’ (Polity Press 07) p. 78:
‘By 1918, as we can see, Freud had already clearly identified a ploy that has
been operative ever since, which consists in referencing the articulation of
desire and its object back to a meaning that is pre-constituted in culture,
mythology, or religion. The endevouring aim of this ploy is to reintroduce
meaning into the place of, and instead of, truth, thereby injecting ‘the
cultural’ into libido. This is a hermeneutic ploy, and Freud immediately saw
it as an insidious negation of his discovery. Briefly, it was necessary to
come back to bare sex and its radical absence of meaning.’
Then later (p.79) Badiou writes: ‘Ever since the days of the Roman Empire, we
know that enjoyment is what every life tries to guarantee for itself, when it
takes the place of the imperative, what one inevitably ends up enjoying is
atrocity.’
With this last sentence, I’m still thinking of the Chapmans, but also of
Rupert’s comment re. ‘unknotted belief’ on the messageboard.
violet — June 2, 2007 @ 2:14 am
In any case the Chapman’s do a lot with boys - less unreal … in their work
with soldiers at war the bodies get to amount but you can see these are dead
bodies - like at war - or maybe wounded… it happens at war
paul — May 29, 2007 @ 1:19 am
Does Chapman do the same with boys?
gal — May 28, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
with the Chapman’s the empty belongs in the image - not being the thing
itself - but still more subtil is the fact that it relates to the impossible
- an image of dreams, fantasy.. perhaps of Lacan’s Woman and her miss
relative to a universal profile
violet — May 27, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
in the case of Warhol - with the Campbel soup, the box of Brillo - or
Gober with the cat litter - the art is about that, about you not being
supposed to open the can, the box, and consume its contents although it says
there that you do so… right? but can we trace the same throughout, for
example, the Chapman’s?
alice — May 25, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
that explains it - that is, the object is already being emptied with the
aritst thinking the act that may confirm the actual fact. Warhol, Robert
Gober… the one with the Campbel soup, the box of Brillo, Gober with the cat
litter…?
Chris Sands — May 25, 2007 @ 2:10 am
ps.
With art perhaps, we sometimes begin with the discrepancies of a latterday
‘readymade’, an object which is already an interpretation - in the sense that
JAM’s implies.
Chris Sands — May 25, 2007 @ 2:02 am
Alice, sorry if this is the wrong place … on the messageboard you bring
together signifier, object, lack and creativity (44) and first, I thought of
Alain Badiou’s references to Sam Beckett. Then found myself looking again at
JA Miller’s INTERPRETATION IN REVERSE, which is available online.
Have pasted a little passage from the start of this text. With a little help
from JAM, linking two practices (and following GW’s DESUBLIMATION) my
question would be, does the work of art and the work of psychoanalysis
reitterate a ‘discrepancy’? A discrepancy with signifier and object.
JAM writes: ‘Who does not know that the unconscious stands then entirely in
the discrepancy which is repeated between what I want to say and what I do
say - as if the signifier was deflecting the programmed trajectory of the
signified, and this is what gives ground to interpretation - as if the
signifier was interpreting, in its own fashion, what I want to say. It is in
this discrepancy that Freud situated what he called the 'unconscious' - as if
for this wanting-to-say of mine, which is my 'intention of signification',
another wanting-to-say was substituted, which would be that of the signifier
itself and which Lacan designated as 'the desire of the Other'.’
alice — May 25, 2007 @ 12:29 am
violet - there’s also bad weather at the other end
violet — May 19, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
are you telling us of Jersey islands that they stand for misty rain and
pizza?
Chris Sands — May 15, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
(below, a short excerpt from an ongoing text. It follows a still taken in
Rennes and comes before another taken of the German navy arriving in St Malo!
Will update website referred to above shortly)
FOUR
'DRESS CIRCLE DREAM'
1.
Why a 'dress circle', why bad skin?
Is what's left - 'left in tatters'?
2.
Sitting in the train, sitting in the station, after so many cues, there was
nowhere to prop up the video camera. I'd find places in Rennes, but not later
in St Malo when I just wanted to go home.
Thinking ahead, I'd use both cameras first thing in the morning in Jersey,
on the |
