Re Allan Kaprow’s tires (there is a NY show coming up),
have pinched something from a text called ‘Loss, Lack and Repetition’ (Larval Subjects)
linking tire with ‘torus’. Had in mind also, for some reason, references earlier in symposium to the ‘torso’ (first of all in a Greek sculpture and Rilke poem)
‘In his engagement with the torus, Lacan sought a model of desire– and he presented many different models in the ninth seminar –capable of illustrating this difference between loss and lack as it functions in desire, and that would avoid the perils of conceive desire in terms of the model of a sphere. It will be noted that the torus or inner tube contains two circles, an inner circle around an internal void– the “doughnut hole” –and the outer ring about this internal void. Lacan likens the tube surrounding the void to the domain of demand, and treats the internal void the tube encircles to desire. In his earlier work, Lacan had argued that demand is always a demand for love. We request a particular object from another or give a particular object to another, but in this exchange, it is not the object that is at stake, but the object as a carrier of the other’s love. In his essay “Signification of the Phallus”, Lacan remarks that desire is what remains when we subtract need from demand …’
Comment by Chris Sands — September 3, 2009 @ 1:20 am
Once upon a time, prompted perhaps by (Antonia’s reference to) the view from Lacan’s Baltimore hotel room, I put out a call for descriptions through a nearest window and I remember recently Sol’s reference to a ‘back garden’. It seemed an interesting Wacjmanian task, as we all peer through ‘different windows’, but I wonder whether we couldn’t do the same with language.
Can it be a similar question?
Can we say, in a simplified way, how language effects us?
Do our words speak us or is there more to it than this?
Can we say what language is for us?
Comment by Chris Sands — September 5, 2009 @ 3:18 am
Language for me CS is to start with a presence outside of me, an Other, where the subject will arise -don’t I want to embody that subject as well as the objet a coming from this Other, if only to trascend it… The Other is symbolic: language is communication,
Caught up today in a neighbourly dispute about the vicinity of drains, having been reading Jacques Alain Miller’s text ‘OF SEMBLANTS in the Relation Between Sexes’ (which is on the reading list for the Geneva NLS Conference). JAM talks about ‘having’ and ‘not having’ the phallus and ‘being’ as a solution to ‘not having’.
To have the words or not have the words for something seems significant in a world where most people talk, but can ‘being’ also be a solution with language? Do our words sometimes speak us without there being a jouissance?
Comment by Chris Sands — September 6, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
that seems very well put violet even beautiful – touching or touched to some others..
In his Conference VII – The topic of the Imaginary – following comments over a little girl that could be called autistic, Lacan says
“She calls for nothing”
In 58, in “The Direction of the Cure” he will discern between call and demand, “From the call to the Demand”, and goes on to talk about how to handle the demand in psychoanalysis
mean the object a of the always partial drives allows for no access to this never global other whom we all know too universally well without existence , missing , a re-tired other of narcotic mean (narcissistic-psychotic),autistic,artistic,
a re-tired cowboy an autistic name,e.g.east clintwood the name without a man.
j.a.m tells that Lacan divides the Freudian wish between demand and desire. He thus equates desire, arising from the signifier, with the metonymy of signification that results from the “being for another.”
the object attaches subject to being through the fantasy,repetition,the bedrock the impasssibility of autisticnarcissism.
I don’t think you can just equate autism and narcissism, when, with autism, there is possibly not yet a pond to look into.
Don’t I have to have some relationship with the image that looks back – to be narcissistic?
Comment by Chris Sands — September 9, 2009 @ 7:09 am
Sometimes descriptions of autism seem to illuminate the human condition (and the ‘Courtil papers’ are exceptional I think), but at the time of Seminar one, was Lacan still thinking in terms of a Kleinian continuum (from something like paranoid-schizoid position to depressive position) or was he already thinking in terms of clinical structure and of differential diagnosis?
Comment by Chris Sands — September 10, 2009 @ 3:07 am
I meant was Lacan looking at a continuum between neurosis and Psychosis, but I didn’t mean was Lacan looking at a Kleinian continuum!
Comment by Chris Sands — September 10, 2009 @ 12:07 pm
I think with Lacan there isn’t a continuum between neurosis and Psychosis, rather psychosis was always there, from the outset… of course there is the outbreak, like in schizophrenia, and now you know of it. However there are neurotic traits with psychotics. if treated – the neurotic symptoms – psychotics can feel better
Thank you, but am still thinking of that sentence (comment 11) which talks of an object beginning to be a subject,
which is reference to the case of an autistic child and not to a jouissance turning towards desire
Comment by Chris Sands — September 10, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Autism is multi-culturalism…ignorance does not imply a non relation nor is narcissism\autism an equation.
i think these ideas are thought provoking even if they might lead dummies to confusion, like me i meant. but i think psychosis can be thought provoking not just mumbo jumbo, i’m probably not alone it just seems like it sometimes.
Will add some more from the text by Maire Jaanus (p.327, A Civilization of Hatred, Reading Seminars 1 and 2, Suny).
“Robert is ‘acutely confused by his own self, the contents of his body, objects, children, and the adults who surround(ed) him’. His identification with objects is only beginning: the few objects that are part of his daily life are the symbols of the contents of his body. ‘The sand is the symbol of feces, the water that of urine, the milk that of what enters his body’. But even these few objects are not clearly differentiated for him and he does not distinguish his own physical persistence from theirs. They are he. And for this reason, they obsess him and are able to cause him to panic.”
‘A bit of sand fell on the ground, unleashing unbelievable panic in him. He had to gather up every last bit of sand, as if it was a piece of himself, and he howled – Wolf, Wolf!’
‘Robert is as yet the victim of the objects with which he identifies as his traumatized fear of body partitioning (an example of what Lacan calls later the fall of the object a) reveals) …’
Comment by Chris Sands — September 11, 2009 @ 1:31 am
I do not seek I find
Symbolic Lacan was fond of Picassos utterance regarding creativity
later Lacan switched to his
I do not find I seek
there is no object prior to the subject
the subject does not cathect
somewhere along the road Freud confused the death of the organism with subject formation/ego consciousness
the bedrock of castration resulting
the never ending frustration of Kleinian relations and dynamic therapies
n\or a being out of nothingness( existentialist creationist Other)
but lacan on the subject\object the distance of so called late lacan
his distance from the object consciousness is that distance from the abstraction called language that leads us to
the psychotic ordinary or other particularity of each respective and evil tongue.
Comment by Chris Sands — September 11, 2009 @ 2:48 pm
Autism is castrated auto-erotic-ism
that is it only witnessed as domesticated
retains the the child as innocent
Bleuler cut the erotic charge
As he morally objected to libido theory of Freud
in relationship to narcissism
there is a mirror
what is reflected is traumatic
but psychchoanalysic understanding of structural relation
may allow space for processing the threatening image
that has prevented symbolisation
as defence the child enjoys the autoerotic sensitivity to her own bodily secretions
stimuli to protect herself from the threatening image of the other
It feels to me as if the from time to time editing (and archiving) of this site produces a particular sequence. Last time, the image at the top was a photo of Duchamp and friend playing chess prior to the opening of an exhibition. This time it’s Alan Kaprow’s tires, which can be (polka dot) knottings in true Lacanian style. Soon after, I wanted to ask a question about language (comment 6), then, it seems, the word or idea ‘autism’ slips away from Kaprow’s lost hoops …
So, what about (how) language (effects us) and autism? If language has a veiling effect and I’m also thinking of something Sol says recently on the messageboard, does the word ‘autism’ prompt a covering up or cathexis? How are we to read the image above (74), without thinking of Lacan’s painting ‘the origin of the world’ and the covering up sequel?
Comment by Chris Sands — September 13, 2009 @ 5:11 am
the image above (74)? you mean the image above (37)?
I had to read what you wrote a few times Lucky, thought it was a song
Comment by Chris Sands — September 13, 2009 @ 2:28 pm
Erotic jouissance is prior to auto-erotic jouissance, but is it prior to autism?
as to the similarity with Courbet’s “the origin of the world’ and the covering up sequel… this image with the woman on a table is not pointing to a part body… I don’t think so
But she is the subject of the gaze.
Her predicament (catatonic schizophrenia) adds to her vulnerability and my suggestion has to do with language, but also the topic of autism. It seems to me that in both instances, language is there (here) to do a Max Ernst; ie. to cover up the subject of the gaze.
The suggestion also has to do with a wordy response to what may or may not have to do with autism. What Lacan says abut the gaze in Sem. X1 seems important in this respect. Courbet’s model has no head, and the image above has to do with a subject who’s subjectivity is diminished by the gaze.
This reminds me of one of those Japanese ghost films, where the hero is covered in a calligraphy to protect against demons…
‘Wolf’ is also a talisman used by the autistic child (referred to in Sem 1) to defend against language
Comment by Chris Sands — September 14, 2009 @ 3:26 am
‘There must be a drug for that’
(the check out chick suggests)
The autist functions as the gaze which ha s not been returned
yes indeed Chris
the function of a picture is to tame,to civilise
the veil conceals the drive as lacking in representation
the eye is made desperate by the gaze
the subject is operating with its own loss disappearance,
the effect of seperating from the Other
in Encore i understand hat the mirror stages the subject as the gaze which has been lost in seperation
the gaze here is th lost oject linking with the Other
Richard Klein links this to object refinding
“the object refound is an object connected to the nothing of the lost object as for instance in the schema of the veil”
in the field of representation the object gaze is not assimilable
it is outside discourse
the object a destroys as in beavis and buttheadsimpotent sex and violence
which call to mind another puerile rivalry
lacans recalling of scene described by st augustine
the gaze is jouissance not yet superegoic but capable of tearing the brother or anyother to pieces
Wondering if end’a’ is aiming to put a stop’a’ in object ‘a’? something to applaud if so
erupting from dormancy here as he/she has, triggering rupert’s gun no less
and yes lucky, thought provoking all this for dummies like me.
One of the luxuries of these pages is having the freedom to watch…
… and after a while to hear revolvers being cocked.
There is a drive for/to/of ignorance and a Desire to dispel it. Each has its discourse, and there are discourses(entire lives) of the no-man’s-land in between, discourses of demand etc. As a dummy i’m not asking for a metalanguage but a way to understand the why of discourse(s), here for example, which often verge on the vain, futile or senseless and often enough, self consciously so. Or we choose silence. I know everyone feels this tension. Lacan’s Promethean metaphor for language- a choice between a conflagration and cooking is sort of helpful
again, while looking into a mirror at yourself, imagining a confrontation which would give you a chance to draw your gun…
“You talkin’ to me? You talkin’ to me? You talkin’ to me? Then who the hell else are you talkin’ to? You talkin’ to me? Well I’m the only one here. Who the fuck do you think you’re talking to?”
Comment by Chris Sands — September 20, 2009 @ 3:36 am
oh yeah violet. Just waitin for the doors to the saloon at the other enda the street to swing open..
‘Broken English’? The song or the album? Love the song and the album is studded with gems. The best ever ‘Working Class Hero’ and ‘Why’dya Do It?’- the best swearin from a gal you never heard.
Gorgeous sculpture Chris. In the words of a wistful valley girl used here on 3RRR as a station id… “They have Nick Cave dolls now? I waaaaaan’t one”! This murakami has a way with toxic kitsch.
Marlboro Man illustrates how it’s possible for a cowboy to become a ‘new meaning’ phenomena–a signifier points to an artifice: Marlboro Country, since it did not formerly exist and still it does not really exist…
if we follow Zizek there is a quilting effect that occurs when a certain inversion takes place — it does not occur until “real” Americans start to identify themselves with the figure in the Marlboro advertisement– till America itself is experienced as Marlboro country.
Sometimes all is quiet here, next door and in the forum, as if a series of conversations run out of steam.
Will use what I imagine to be a lull in proceedings to bring in the sinthome with quotes from ‘Lacan’s Analytic Goal: le sinthome or the feminine way’ written by Paul Verhaeghe and Frederic Declercq (in ‘Reinventing the Sympton, edited by Luke Thurston).
‘The identification of the subject with the object a not only replaces this Symbolic suppletion with a more stable, Real one, but has in addition creative effects: the jouissance of one’s own drives creates the ‘Other gender’. To be sure this Other is a fiction, but it is a fiction that does not turn the subject into a dupe because he has created it by himself, based on his particular way of jouissance. Lacan calls this self-created fiction a sinthome: a particular signifier that the three registers of the Real, the Symbolic and the Imaginary into a particular sexual rapport. ‘That which I have defined for the first time as a sinthome, is what permits the Symbolic, the Real and the Imaginary to be kept together … On the level of the sinthome, there is a relationship … There is only a relationship where there is a sinthome’.
The quotes from Lacan are from seminar 23
Comment by Chris Sands — October 17, 2009 @ 4:36 am
end of 4th line of quote should read – ‘a particular signifier that knots the three registers …’
Comment by Chris Sands — October 17, 2009 @ 4:40 am
Comment by Chris Sands — October 17, 2009 @ 4:47 am
Pierre-Gille Gueguen is in NY these days, on account of the Clinical Studies — he spoke at the Work Space (ex Dia Art Foundation) last Friday…
gossip: Gueguen told about the Duchamp painting projected on the background how it was rejected in Paris, the artist overcome with grief moved to the USA… in no time the actual painting was raised to glory together with the artist’s ineffable fame
The word gos-sip is interesting in itself, a hint of ancient Greece (perhaps) … sipping the juice of cobwebs on Mount Olympus… ?
But I wonder if gossip has anything to do with dream worlds or better still, dreams in analysis?
In my dream last night, I was travelling with a woman who eventually dumps me in A, a city not far from the mountain of the gods.
When I asked friends where she was, they told me she’d gone (with a girlfriend) to I, a Mediterranean island famous for its nightclubs.
Waking, I felt angry, but consoled as I rarely go anywhere in my dreams …
Comment by Chris Sands — October 20, 2009 @ 4:56 am
well it seems it was over before it had barely begun for Lucas and Leader and CS and the mysterious nightclubber.
In my town you often hears news, even about yourself, before you even know of it yourself.
(It’s you, your own gossip violet, though I’ll keep my ears open and let you know if I hear anything thrilling or otherwise about you).
Found some interesting sentences towards the end of ‘the Art of Shrinking Heads’ by Dany-Robert Dufour:
‘We are in much the same position Descartes found himself in Amsterdam in 1631, a few years before he wrote Le Discours de la Methode: ‘In this great city where I am living, with no man apart from myself not being involved in trade, everyone is so intent on his profits that I could spend my whole life without being seen by anyone’ (Descartes 1953:941). Descartes, being a man who could remain calm in the most desperate situations, is the theoretical character we need here; when everybody else feels obliged to be involved in trade, he enjoys ‘complete freedom’.
Comment by Chris Sands — October 30, 2009 @ 4:39 am
I like it here! Aaaaaah he peace and quiet of the symposium!
When I tried to use a lozenge next door in the messageboard, I’d read something JAM said (in the latest LacInk) about talking against a position, after Lacan (many times) talked against Lacan. So mixing ‘lathouse’ and contemporary art (via that lozenge) was inspired by a need to dig myself out (of a dubious position).
But alas, the lozenge (that never was) can’t keep lathouse and contemporary art apart and any new argumentative, possible object a slips towards the debris of Angelus Novus …
I don’t have much internet access where I am and haven’t got a copy of LacInk avec moi, so can’t do justice to JA Miller’s argument. Sorry!
Comment by Chris Sands — November 10, 2009 @ 3:09 pm
where is it where you are, without internet access, without Lacanian Ink…?
Dear VIolet, am a long way from home receiving 7 weeks hospital treatment, but staying in a posh hotel paid for by my health authority. I suppose this is a variant on what On Karawa is sometimes want to say. I fortunately have the latest LacInk with me (it’s always a pleasure) but there is no Internet access on the 11th floor and I’m resorting to ipod communication…
Comment by Chris Sands — November 13, 2009 @ 2:43 pm
(extra bit) if iPod is one way of beginning to say something about the possible meanings of “lathouse”, then there are also consolations…
Comment by Chris Sands — November 13, 2009 @ 3:11 pm
it seems a little crossed as a lathouse because you can do thinds on it that might not be a lathouse, is my reasoning..
my dear friend, hospital situations happen to get imposed on us, and there is not much else to do than go through them… and you have a choice to refuse treatment, but who wants to hear about the consequences… best wishes for your very prompt recovery!
In fact it’s been a year of ‘health issues’, but I think there’s much to pick up in these situations. What’s now ‘present treatment’ involved much deliberation, surprise and shock, periods of debilitating anxiety – and now a ‘new world’, meeting others going through something similar.
Serious health problems bring about many changes. I see a Lacanian in London when I can, but am playing catch up, assessing changes that touch my work (as artist or therapist) and life. Mortality is very much a part of Lacanian practice, but there are times, perhaps, when the moment (or the moment of our mortality) seems pressing.
Is this something ‘imposed’ on me or not? I don’t know.
Sometimes ‘work’ prompts something new – and sometimes life seems to prompt changes in every respect.
To take up On Karawa’s challenge, I should say ‘I’m okay but inevitably things seem a little strange sometimes’.
Comment by Chris Sands — November 14, 2009 @ 5:52 am
Illness will sometimes seem like something terribly imposed, but there are many dimensions here. Beyond something shocking and the anxiety that follows a shocking time, there was finding a little equilibrium in my case, which involved wanting to spend time working on a few old and new projects. I don’t know whether these dimensions constitute a circumstance or my circumstanes, but i may be able to say more later
Comment by Chris Sands — November 15, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
Added to the above, there are assumptions here concerning healthcare which are not shared in the US, although I know there seem to be moves in the right direction over there
Comment by Chris Sands — November 15, 2009 @ 2:57 pm
I have just caught up with teh yellow side of things
and find you ill again Chris. Best wishes if you are not
already through the worst..take care
A surprising time!
Ten minutes treatment per day for seven weeks finishing New Years eve.
Hope to see my analyst next week, but difficult to talk about this time here.
Something seems to have happened (or be happening) which goes beyond sickness and treatment …
Comment by Chris Sands — November 27, 2009 @ 4:04 am
It sounds like a very good idea that next week you see your analyst, Chris…
Am in hotel not hospital (and it’s radiotherapy outpatient treatment).
The prognosis is good at the moment, but (this year) am caught up in endless rounds of tests, treatment etc and will be for a while.
Thanks for all the flowers, but am leading a more or less normal life and will be going up to London tomorrow.
I just have to be careful not to overdo things because am likely to feel side effects if I do.
Something like this brings about many changes for work and life, but change brings about new sensitivities, much new thinking and future challenges.
Comment by Chris Sands — December 1, 2009 @ 4:48 am
one admires your equanimity chris. a few years ago i went through treatment for a life challenging illness
chemo, radio, surgery
the masters told me to drink other’s sadness, sin, pain
through a straw
to take it with me wherever i was going
and here to annoy you amd your bastard mates
I want to revise what I said before …
I said, in some way, I couldn’t begin to describe present experiences.
Then the thought is; something’s always possible here, but it involves a willingness to talk or write personally in a place where this sometimes happens.
Is this what the best of contemporary art also does?
Despite a preoccupation with jouissance these days, art talks to the subject, reminds the subject of possible subjectivity…
Was very impressed by the work of Miroslaw Balka at the Tate Modern…
Comment by Chris Sands — December 4, 2009 @ 7:32 am
That’s so interesting Chris, for me, given i’ve been wondering about the lugubrious subject and its subjectivity and its opening to a closure upon a syntax, a n idiom which enshrouds and kills it… a death defying giving way to the harmonics of elegy… we need to trap the opening,… trap it open
Glad you get up town to view some art. Hope you’re making some
I wonder if Lacan were alive he’d not have purchassed this and masked it, as he he did with some 19thc erotica, with a simulacrum? Or offered some blah about the lure or perhaps in the death here of phallic jouissance theres some recourse to S1? Feeling shrunken before the light
That erotica was Courbet’s “Origin of the World”, jampa, and the one to do the simulacra André Masson, his brother in law – married to Rose Macklés, sister of Sylvia Macklés, who in turn married George Bataille, from whom she divorced to marry Jacques Lacan…. Now I wonder how the Miroslaw Balka is called.
I think with this artist’s work it’s worth doing a little research (on net perhaps) to get a sense of what it might be. At the Tate Modern, I noticed a film (about 30 minutes long) that serves as an introduction to Miroslaw Balka’s work. Afterwards I made the connection to the very large work in the Turbine Hall. This artist finds a way to respond to environment and history in a personal and subject to subject way, which is rare, I think, in the world of contemporary art.
Comment by Chris Sands — December 7, 2009 @ 9:17 am
sorry, but the two last messages got erased by accident
Oh, that reminds me of a child who used to hold
onto a blade of grass when she was sitting on the ground
sometimes to avoid falling up and off the earth.
She couldn’t be sure that gravity would apply to
her at those times