- 11/28/06
Author : admin
Comment:
It seems as though all that was solid has melted into air.

- 11/28/06
Author : rupert
Comment:
indeed! what happened?

- 11/28/06
Author : admin
Comment:
Sorry rupert and everybody else, I pressed the wrong button - you know, I’m new to this: new to a messageboard without spam

- 11/28/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(dear Admin) -if we could restore previous messages as an archive it would be so useful … much was going on … Violet had referred to a ‘plus de jouir’ and a process in an analysis. But, I wondered if the description fits only one version of the symptom? In ‘DETACHED PIECES’, JA Miller refers to the symptom of the signifier (joined) and the symptom which is the sinthome (detached). ‘The symptom will take place in the clinic, distinguishing two modes of symptom, in the old and the new style: the Freudian and the Joycean symptom’ (LacInk 28, p.30).

- 11/28/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
dear Admin, there seem to be some technical problems. At present, the second half of (new) ‘art and Lacan symposia’ seems to be missing (messages 22 - 39)

- 11/28/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Like a dinner party, hardly remembered, where the host’s charisma outshone even my dancing nude on the table while singing Iggy’s ‘No Fun’! At least I walk away with a trace- ‘the administration of jouissamce’ and its source being whisked ‘downunder’ (should arrive any month now) and an abiding admiration for cs. An introduction to Badiou, violet, sol, alice, rupert, paul and the redoubtable perf. Buggered if i can remember their faces… Chris and Tracey seemed to click but while he wasn’t looking, she was checking me out…

- 11/28/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Oh, and Gilles and Felix were told to ‘Stop that or leave!’- so they left.

- 11/28/06
Author : admin
Comment:
I’m looking through some of the previous comments I have, maybe they are all in there, so as to put them up probably today

- 11/29/06
Author : sol
Comment:
oh yes! that dinner party, I had almost forgotten
i drank fra angelico (plus de lime)
and spoke too loose-ly and slipped on my tongue
(so that was you on the table Jampa!?)
it was all so virtually transient..

- 11/29/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Ahh Sol, the blanks you fill! I can see you standing on your tongue, slipping, and I laughed so much I undressed or was that my mother? No, she was absent, but her voice wasn’t or.. vice versa or both! What a night! And who was that Argentinian from New Zealand who drank perfume? I slipped Tracey my card but apparently she only dates analysts. Perhaps a pencil thin moustache will trick her…

- 11/29/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
You are both getting too good!

- 12/01/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Sol: your ‘fra angelico (plus de lime)’ has had me giggling all day… Thanks!

- 12/01/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Perhaps we can address the issue of a few lost messages … ? It seems there may have been an accident and accidents happen … but in the context of the life of the site, I thought it felt strange. If blogs become part of the landscape and this begins to be a new landscape, what happens when something from the virtual goes missing? Where does it go?
Alain Badiou confused me recently. First, thanks to Mallarme - ‘all that remains is the place’, then, with drawing (and Badiou includes installations, performance) in the most recent LacInk, there is no longer a place or the place is no longer the same place. Drawing subverts place. In a paper describing ‘late Lacan’ (available on this site), JA Miller refers to Lacan going beyond psychoanalysis, going beyond Lacan and it seems Badiou goes beyond Badiou describing a drawing.
Badiou calls a drawing fragile and it seems this new messageboard is fragile too. An accident removes something new, but who’s to say where evidence of the virtual world’s gone? Have we lost a drawing?

- 12/01/06
Author : admin
Comment:
Chris Sands - Though it took a while I’ve recuperated the lost comments... so in a day or two they will appear as an Archive, as you suggested. Sorry for the accident, it’s all my fault. But now I know - it shouldn’t happen again.

- 12/01/06
Author : violet
Comment:
This new messageboard is fragile because you are able to edit it, and so discard what is not acceptable… you just have to be careful. But when it comes to Spam, and something can be done for the horrible messages and messangers not to fall in the middle of everything, it’s certainly much stronger than the other one

- 12/02/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(DEAR ADMIN) please see what I wrote not as a rapproach … really, I found the mishap full of a potential, as described.

- 12/02/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Virtual loss of that which existed virtually (a ‘painting’ half completed in Corel ‘Draw’ when a power surge erases it )differs from the extinguishment of the pubished, the sanctioned (but how?), differs again from the disappearance of a conversation with scant claim to the legitimacy of print, virtual or otherwise.. If Badiou is saying that a drawing amounts to a subjective eruption into space, in a zone where blogs- boutique subjectivity, insulated from critique by the ephemerality and plurality of the medium- what is lost (but which appears not to be) is as Johnson’s loss of Boswell, a machine for recording which we may well have done without!

- 12/02/06
Author : rhys
Comment:
Not an awful lot of chatting going on…

- 12/02/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Carlos Santana (of all people! God bless him!) said “Not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a virtual being having a human experience”. If this had the status of a well worn aphorism, I could enjoy corrupting it as, with regard to our loss, putative or not, ‘Not a Platonic dialogue having a pre-Socratic experience, but an SMS having a sky-writing experience’ I am grateful cs always for the information you relay

- 12/03/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
Can anybody tell me what a Fra Angelico is ? I know Fra Anglelico the Artist who believed to ‘prey without weeping was like crying without tears’ It must be a cocktail?. Has anybody explored the role of Islam and text? Where we say ‘ words speak me’ this is literally true in Islam. The supremacy of the text. Has anybody got a real understanding of Arabian culture and its complexities. Many Muslims think we are blind to the power of the Islamic text and its nuances. Did Islam get to textual ananlysis before Lacan?. The elaboration of the Islamic caligraphy can be profound. Are there any Muslims who use this site?

- 12/03/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Terryl: ‘The cognitive world has been getting into bed with Buddhism…’, Islam, all the Great Traditions for thousands of years. Saussure translated Sanskrit texts before ‘inventing’ semiotics, Lacan added the pig to Freud’s snake and rooster re-stating a triad as old as language, as sentience, the same Lacan revels in St Augustine’s genius standing itself on ‘the shoulders of giants’. As a Buddhist about to enter analysis I think I have to be careful to refuse the temptation to cross fertilize- do you think? While I read Tsong-ka-pa, Zizek, Peter Fenner’s ‘Reasoning into Reality’, cs, and the likes of you! Fritjof Schuon is a Sufi mystic/intellectual I cannot commend to you highly enough- a giant whose shoulders giants sometimes glimpse way above

- 12/03/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
More fertile spelling! (Now this IS a feature distinct from spoken conversation) Who ‘preys without weeping’? Not me! Does Lacan regard preying as a prayer?

- 12/04/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
Budhism is a different story. In Budhism you achieve ‘knowing’ by your own enlightenment. This msut lead to Lacan. but Islam? Sufism is the spiritual side of Islam. I’m thinking more of the text the actual writing in Islam. The first sound a child hears in Islam is the father wispering in the child’s ear a Koranic verse. ‘ To speak well’ is a duty in Islam.

- 12/05/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
to epeak well is a duty everywhere unless you have an unconscious, in which case the duty is to speak as poorly, as stupidly as she can

- 12/05/06
Author : alice
Comment:
such an opinionated statement about the well spoken? and now we have to guess over the slipping? over beach+ that can’t even write the word: “epeak”...

- 12/05/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
‘It is our duty to speak well. If we speak well, we think well. If we speak rubbish, we think rubbish’ Lacan

- 12/05/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
The signature ‘wreckage …’ (23) is taken from something I wrote. Given recent history in this place, it brings back some of the ‘undoing’ prior to the new messageboard. Somewhere, JA Miller (I think) describes the unconscious as antagonistic, but the comment may have little to do with speaking well or badly … or the unconscious !?

- 12/05/06
Author : sol
Comment:
I wonder about ’speaking well’
Sometimes it seems desire takes over, and is spoken
(well) but that happens not so often.
Other times, there is a feeling of improvisation with speech,
and surprises occur, which also seem well spoken.
These are the two occurences that i think of, and notice
in my (everyday) life.
Are these the kinds of speaking that others
think of as the ’speaking well’?
or what?

- 12/06/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I remember, somewhere in Encore, Lacan speaks of a change in discourse, of ‘love’ being an indication of a discourse changing … which is something I can’t grasp. If this is reference to four psychoanalytic discourses in the first place, how is love shown between two discourses? I should find the reference … but, what I’m thinking of at the moment, is something which happens in the process of writing, which, for the sake of coherence, pressures the need to stick to one format, to a particular voice or voices …

- 12/06/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
Hi, yes its jampa under a new tag, a nice one, Dear Sol, Cocteau calls it ‘following the bouncing ball’, which arrives at the point of art (if followed far enough).
cs: ‘Love is the sign that one is changing discourses’ occurs on p.16 of Encore (Bruce Fink) and has one’s discourse changed? Am i in love with Terryl? Love is fascination with the new/familiar and enough libido to appropriate it.
Alice: She is a generic pronoun like he or I. I love the way you rock out of the woodwork to castrate me. I wish you were my analyst

- 12/06/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
God knows what they imagine I would think. Perhaps they would believe that i think they are stupid. That is truly the last thing that would cross my mind in such a case’ Encore p.21 ‘The subject is the one we encourabe… to utter stupidities’ Encore, p. 22

- 12/06/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
Encourage? Make that encourage… but sharpen, Alice, ur secateurs

- 12/06/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
But (Jampa), you take the question out of a question by turning it into a game (Cocteau’s) and for me, the question of a discourse changing remains a question. As well, how discourses (and love) turn towards art remains a mystery a question. It seems to me that we sometimes loosen a jouissance, but beyond a questioning jouissance, there’s a real itch or an itch that’s real.

- 12/07/06
Author : sol
Comment:
and also..
love is giving something you don’t have to give..? (a misquote I think)
then at those moments of not having (as Alice has no secateurs - perhaps)
not knowing stumbling along..
lack ing /discourse changing?

- 12/07/06
Author : alice
Comment:
I have no secateurs? watch this Sol: “love is giving something you don’t have.” period after have

and about the change of discourse
I think it’s simple as “you fall in love the discourse changes”
(you fall in love with an Other, and so... that’s the dynamics, the discourse of love is the psychanalytic discourse
jampa , you broke my heart... it’s about the castration issue …

- 12/07/06
Author : violet
Comment:
CS — let’s say that the change starts in the course of the “other” becoming an “Other”, becoming an objet a - an object of desire… and there you have it…
with art it is the same, very well explained by someone in this messageboard, “the sinthome becomes (like a woman) it is not a priori” thus the work-of-art becomes (like a woman)

- 12/07/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
In LacInk JAM talks of a Freudian and Joycean symptom, but does love tucked between discourses fit both symptom and sinthome? If we move with a later Lacan towards structures which are real, aren't we left with nervous formulas and - sometimes >foreclosure

- 12/07/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
continued message (strange accident)
- when one discourse turns towards another? When we move towards the real, we perhaps come across axioms, mathemes, formulas ... (?)

The formula that I'm working with (for the moment) might be (for example) ... ... in a world of stiffling beaurocratic regulation AND an imperative to enjoy, art 'stumbles' through 'four discourses' until it comes to Badiou's 'It is better to do nothing than to contribute to the invention of formal ways of rendering visible that which Empire already recognizes as existent' ...
Taken from Badiou's 15 theses for contemporary art, this last point seems to resonate a little with Lacan's 'speaking well'
(Rather than take up too much space with something which happens between discourses, have also pasted this to 'art+Lacan symposia)

- 12/07/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
Those absent secateurs, how i’ve longed for their presence/absence.Alice: ‘The discourse of love is the psycho-analytic discourse’ I wish someone had said so. I know Alice, You have been very kind to me and i’m a dumb uncastrated prick!
‘How discourses (and love)turn towards art remains a mystery, a question’ breaks my heart because my life means nothing (and i’ve banked everything) without art and loving discourse. The itch of the real(given) is… love
Violet: Yes, the work of art is self evacuating

- 12/07/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
Someone dear to me is recently changing from an hysteric’s to a master’s discourse and verily, like Laurie Anderson’s Eve, ’she is a hothead, a woman in love’. Talk about break your heart
cs: Badiou’s line about doimg mothing and Empire recurs for you, for me, but how to tell the difference between a politicised nothing and a neurotic one? Will analysis inform… one?

- 12/07/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
Doing mothing? Mothing nuch in that mum! One more question, what is the place of full speech in the four discourses?

- 12/07/06
Author : wreckage on the beach
Comment:
A truly spam free messageboard might block me but, perhaps, as i posted once before, love (another love, which this new conversation seems to be tending towards an admission of- distinct from the late Lacan’s love = stupidity) is post analytic discourse. Phillipe Sollers, quoted in Kristeva’s ‘Desire in Language’, ‘Love is sense and nonsense and it is love which allows sense to emerge from nonsense, making the latter obvious and legible’.

- 12/07/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
Isn’t the quote : ‘Love is giving something you don’t have to someone that doesn’t EXist’

- 12/07/06
Author : violet
Comment:
I think the quote is “'Love is giving something you don't have”, giving something you don't have to someone that doesn't EXist, is what happens

- 12/07/06
Author : sol
Comment:
but Alice the secateurs are only there if
I see/read them
as being there,
if something happens to me
and i say it has to do with you (period?)

- 12/07/06
Author : alice
Comment:
Sol,
you wrote “love is giving something you don't have to give..”
I say it is: “”love is giving something you don't have”
Then I say period meaning the phrase should stop, after “have”
As to the word secateur, I don’t know it very well

- 12/07/06
Author : sol
Comment:
Alice, yes and I appreciate the ending.

I think they are like gardening shears.
my point is more general, that castration
is not something ‘done to you’
but something assumed (in both meanings of the word)

- 12/08/06
Author : alice
Comment:
Sol - would man and woman be an example of assumed castration?
as Poros and Pe–a, the Greek gods… he has - she doesn’t have…. nothing however is lacking from a woman… likewise, nothing is in excess with regard to man

- 12/08/06
Author : sol
Comment:
Alice - I’d say nothing is lacking from woman/symptom
though is from a woman
as something is lacking from a man
and to assume our loss gives us something else

- 12/08/06
Author : sol
Comment:
rather, our lack

- 12/09/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
… You seem to be checking something out, but seem to leave out the possibility that clinical structure effects castration - if you are speaking generally (?)

- 12/09/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
Thankyou for your corrrection Violet.

‘ All human beings lack’

- 12/09/06
Author : alice
Comment:
Who said so Terry1?

- 12/09/06
Author : paul
Comment:
What do humans beings lack?

- 12/09/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
With neurosis, lack but with psychosis, a hole … where the N de P would have been

- 12/09/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Was responding to Terry1, Paul, but your question deserves some time …

- 12/09/06
Author : paul
Comment:
CS - Also your answer to Terry1 deserves some time — really clarifying in concern with the lack & the hole being opposites

- 12/10/06
Author : sol
Comment:
Do you mean, CS, as well as castration ‘effecting’ structure?
Yes, well, Freud’s return to the question of choice of neurosis,
(re neurosis)

- 12/10/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Sometimes here, as in conversation, there seems to be rapport, in the sense that one thing (said) leads to another, a flow, but possibly then a question arises which breaks the spell. In this instance, comment 53 breaks the spell for me. it prompts a gap … and the break possibly has everything to do with lack. At least, it gets in the way of easy answers.
If a question like this causes tension, even anxiety, and there are many instances of a question like this causing anxiety, then what Lacan calls blah blah (I think) won’t suffice. When anxiety is unbearable, we move away from what JAM calls the Freudian symptom to the Joycean symptom. We are no longer in the zone of lack or gap, but contend with holes, the sinthome, substitution and ‘delusional metaphors’. Beyond the clinical structure, psychosis, there seem to be moments when ‘historical materialism’ and a dialectic turn towards ‘unanswerable questions’ - which certainly arise in Encore.

- 12/10/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(Paul) Could we say, in some way, your question turns a hole into lack?

- 12/10/06
Author : paul
Comment:
I asked the question (53) because for me there is nothing lacking in a human being.

- 12/10/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Wow!

- 12/10/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Andrei Tarkovsky: ‘There is no such thing as death,’ (w)hole ‘but the fear of it is very real’. Lack. For example?

- 12/10/06
Author : paul
Comment:
Nor lack, nor hole, jampa. Opposite to animals that do not fear death - animals get close to dead animals, they smell them, and so… - fear of death is a trait, quality, certainly not lacking in the human

- 12/11/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
But whole creatures no death… isn’t

- 12/11/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Paul: What is lack but the want of the sufficient? It ain’t no crucial deficit…

- 12/11/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
And animals don’t fear death? Not on this planet! Perhaps you mean ‘the dead’?

- 12/11/06
Author : violet
Comment:
jampa - animals don’t fear the dead, nor death, I think, let’s say they have a survival instinct - still they don’t know they are going to die

- 12/11/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I wonder whether comment 53 can be put into some context. To put it into a parlance lifted from Alain Badiou, for example, do we have a world where the question - What do humans beings lack - can be asked? Lack in a Lacanian context surely implies an Other and the possibility that it can be seen as part of a discourse … ?

- 12/11/06
Author : violet
Comment:
question is that lack implies comparison, you lack against what?

- 12/12/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
cs: How would we create a world where your priviledged question can be asked? But of course the funny bit is that it was a rhetorical question and the self-reply ‘nothing’ deserves to confound and stimulate populations. But can it before these sms’s become sky-writing? One should rent a plane?!

- 12/12/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
The question could be put in the context of ‘ecology’ and/ or a ‘consumer society’, but then we’d been talking a pressing or demanding situation … but, could the question for the ‘Lacanian world’ have more to do with an extraordinary analysis - which seems to have little or no impact on the world of politics? Something lacking in the ‘Lacanian world’ though is a little way from Paul’s question.

- 12/13/06
Author : sadie
Comment:
Hi, I am a third year undergraduate student fascinated with Lacan. I will be studying in Paris this upcoming spring semester and wanted to see if anyone knew of any programs/resources that would allow me to further my Lacanian studies during my time there. While I do speak some French, I am by no means fluent (which has been my primary obstacle in finding a program on my own). I will be enrolled at the Sorbonne, but was not able to find any English taught classes surrounding Lacan through them...any ideas where else I could look??

- 12/13/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
cs: Please talk more about ‘extraordinary analysis’.

- 12/13/06
Author : sol
Comment:
if I don’t lack, why log on?

- 12/13/06
Author : paul
Comment:
you log on because of the discourse…

- 12/13/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(re73) this was reference to a body of work (Lac. psychoanalysis) - which continues to surprise me and make a difference.

- 12/13/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I, so much want to get back to the A+L symposia (only 42 comments!), but have plucked something from JAM’s reference to later Lacan, hot and available on the site. In LacInk 26, Massimo Recalcati talks of two subjectivities, the ’subject of the unconscious’ and an ‘empty subject’. In the most recent LacInk, JA Miller refers to a Freudian symptom and a Joycean symptom. And in the late Lacan text, JAM seems to refer to two versions of the unconscious.
Towards the end of the text - http://www.lacan.com/lacinkXXXI2.htm
JAM writes ‘In this sense, the word “unconscious” in Lacan’s later teaching has a double meaning. From time to time he can criticize it as a Freudian elucubration and he can say elsewhere that the unconscious is real. Two distinct levels are designated according to whether one refers to the unconscious in the real outside meaning or to the Freudian elucubration of knowledge.’

- 12/14/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
One loves the energy you bring to your lack… of absolute knowledge! See Sol, guestion 74. Aren’t the subject emptied (of ego) and the subject written by the unconscious commensurate? The one a realized absence of what never was, the other, a fact? (Speaking as a Lacanian discursive). Isn’t that where compassion and love and intellection are possible? What is the etymology (if not the bloody meaning!) of elcubration?

- 12/14/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Found it. ‘Composing by candlelight, a literary composition’.

- 12/14/06
Author : alice
Comment:
will we be able to read your literary composition by candlelight?

- 12/14/06
Author : sol
Comment:
We are able to read Freud’s works



- 12/14/06
Author : violet
Comment:
but Alice, don’t you know jampa writes with lemon juice

- 12/15/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Violet: So you can see invisible ink? Read this- the discourse is flat out discourse is flat out generating white noise and the trick is to still it.. Ask Sol, he’s seen stillness. i know because he’s unafraid of the lyrical, distinct from the regular irruptions. i shouldn’t presume but the dance inhabits me

- 12/16/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
JAM’s essay seems to me admitting that discourse and the unconscious are flat, the discursive ego is flat, the unconscious and the symptom are out, on the self-same planar surface, flat out. Which is as revolutionary as the elision of the unconscious altogether in other systems. More debt to cs. Of course, i take this too far naively as is my wont

- 12/17/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I’m not sure what you mean by the ‘discursive ego’ Jampa. In an ordinary sense we talk about someone being egotistical, but in a Lacanian sense, there’s the ego of the mirror phase and Joyce’s ego - for example.
In the Uk and thereabouts, I’m most often accosted by Klienian versions … where envy, . jealousy (for example) - are part of a sometimes unfortunate and egotistic terrain. I think JA Miller looks at two versions of the unconscious. If we look at what is meant by an ‘empty subjectivity’, we have to look at the ’subject of the unconscious’ too. Despite Kafka, we sometimes suffer the consequences of our transgressions … but in the paper I think JAM stresses the relevance of late Lacan to a set of contemporary issues …

- 12/17/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
… also, with this paper, JAM suggests that with late Lacan, Lacan moves on from a return to Freud. (There are also suggestions, perhaps, of JA Miller moving away from Lacan)

- 12/19/06
Author : sol
Comment:
and what do you envisage moving away from CS?

- 12/19/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Darling you gotta let me know /Should I stay or should I go? / If you say that you are mine /Ill be here til the end of time/ So you got to let know/ Should I stay or should I go?

- 12/19/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
‘…J.A.Miller stresses the relevance of a late Lacan to a set of contemporary issues’. What would comprise that set? For those who, like me, can only womder at your garuda’s flight through the cognitive world, could you list them?

- 12/19/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(Jampa) There is no list, but your question empties out any notion of a link between psychoanalysis and the world that we live in. Psychoanalysis may seem insignificant when on a daily basis, politics seems emtied out of an analysis of a set of problems, but perhaps there’s persistence if you know where to look or if you want to look. The Indonesian figure is more Jim Morrison than Clash … and I know you didn’t expect an answer Sol.

- 12/19/06
Author : sol
Comment:
oh but I may have CS.
Are you having storms?
(the literal type)

- 12/20/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
I don’t accept that cs. There is a list. You have a teacher’s role here. And whether or not Sol is reading your mind, whether or not Joe Strummer’s lyric or Jimbo’s mojo is workin for you, its a list you can make, the moments of the peculiarly contemporary best informed or revealed by a Lacanian is to be enummerated by whom… anyone else?

- 12/20/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Speech

- 12/20/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
In terms of Lacan’s four discourses, your list seems to belong to one of four … or, at least I think you suggest it does. Even if this is a misreading of Lacanian theory (and it probably is), I remember - ages ago - Terry1 said he thought the site functioned as some kind of educational tool. I differed then and would again. Surely, we read and set up conversations in different ways and one way of looking at this difference could have to do with the four discourses. I could say how do you read me, in this instance, Jampa - or, what is this list?

- 12/20/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
From my point of view, the list is quite abstract, a point of reference, an horizon. We might want to go there, but there will be other things on the way (possibly) … but I would still like to know what you think (?)

- 12/20/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
ps. the first item on MY list figures as comment 47 - ‘art and Lacan symposia’

- 12/20/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
ALL human beings lack because when they are born they have lost something…….Completeness. Before we are born we are complete with the m/other. A pregnant woman who is ONE becomes TWO. Her physical body ’splits and divides’ A man’s body can never do this………..Men INVENT Fatherhood. Every woman knows which baby she made. Men never know beecasue nothing happens to their body in the creation of the baby…… The ONE is ONE (Parmenides). We will only ever find this completeness again ‘FLEETINGLY’….Through Jouissance. When we’ve got it……It’s gone! Therefore our lives must be a ‘project’ we have to ‘become what we were meant to be’ (Spinoza). A human being cannot just BE. They have to BECOME something. Our life has to be a project. Descartes was WRONG. ‘ Cogito Ergo Sum’ is WRONG. It’s reworking is : ‘I think where I am not. Therefore I am where I do not think’

- 12/20/06
Author : violet
Comment:
Teryy1 — when they are born they have lost something? who lost something? are you saying human beings are are human beings before being born?

- 12/21/06
Author : millie
Comment:
Please help-My husband is a Lacanian and I want to find a great poster of Lacan and frame it for him for x-mas. I have been looking everywhere!!! If you have any ideas please email me at LatinaCantadora@gmail.com
THANKS!

- 12/21/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
When a child is born it hasn’t ‘gained’ life. It cries because it has ‘lost’ its completeness.

- 12/21/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Weren’t these ideas contemporary with some of the romantics two hundred years ago?

- 12/21/06
Author : violet
Comment:
When a child is born he gains life, aliveness… looses the placenta, whathaveyou — or whatever it takes for him to become a human being — as such, as a human being he is not lacking

- 12/21/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
I suppose the list i’m hoping for is just hopeful- of a delimiting, a manifesto packaging constraints to Lacan and the contemporary, this time, my time and its peculiar ills and how a Lacanian critique might inform it. I could interject into the conversation above for example, that the human being is a ‘being-for-jouissance’ well before conception, and the womb experience is of abject misery, as a consequence. It has truth status for me, but here, for Lacanians, its another… ecrubration.
So, tentatively, with few hopes
1. Empire and its exploitation of petit ‘a’, as a virus
2. 47, a&l symposium, anhistorical, unmediate experience. What is it?
3. Castration and Empire
4. The psychotropic (ecstasy, acid) epidemic and the death (brief) of ‘a’ and ‘A’ vs the clinic vs…
5. etc
So, I dunno, i’d have little to say in such conversations, but i’d enjoy logging on

- 12/22/06
Author : violet
Comment:
jampa - are you saying a fetus is already a human being?

- 12/22/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Violet, dear Violet, yes. But what can anyone say about the millions butchered, one way or another? Life is cheap here, but what goes around, comes around. Yes the foetus is a nascent human being, What else lacks insertion into language?

- 12/23/06
Author : violet
Comment:
jampa - if you need an adjective the existence of your fetus human being is suspicious. A human being is a human being, regardless of the nascent or what have you. Is a fetus a human being?
yes? no?

- 12/23/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Here in Australia, kangaroos are ‘born’ about 4 weeks after conception, 1.2 cm long to suckle in the pouch for a year or more. No placenta, a teat. Are they kangaroos or some sort of pre-existent snuffables, pre-life? Please define born, please define human being. By some accicent, the human baby requires 9 months intra-uterine ’suckling’. God! It’s not rocket science!

- 12/23/06
Author : violet
Comment:
what about BORN as: brought into existence. Lacan, in Encore writes ex-istence. What I understand about the hyphen here is that there needs to be a certain degree of exteriority for the unconscious to ex-ist - to even ex-ist as such. But, is this translating to the baby? and to the canguro living inside/out for that long period of time. Do the little canguros look out of the mother’s pouch, as if from a balcony?

- 12/23/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
ALL human beings are DESIRING human beings. A Philosophy of DESIRE………. When we stop desiring we are DEAD. WE Desire completeness. Descartes confused THINKING and BEING. When we are thinking we are NOT being. When we are being we are not thinking. WE canot THINK and BE at the same time.

- 12/23/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
‘A woman’s partner is solitude’. What a thought for a woman?……… ‘ A woman is the CAUSE of a man’ Why does a woman love her best friend as much as her partner and like her best friend more? ALL women deserve the support of men. ‘A woman will love a man when she can see a weakness in him’

- 12/23/06
Author : sol
Comment:
If the foetus is spoken about
anticipated and imagined
then I think it already is.
that is why, when we arrive
into the outside
we already are in language
and why people say ‘he has always
been like this’ or ‘this is his name’
Then if the baby protests, he becomes
symbolic in another way.
However, this doesn’t answer the question
are any of us human beings
to the other? Or only imagined as such.

- 12/23/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Violet; Isn’t the unconscious altogether exterior for Lacan? Yes joeys do look out as if from a balcony!
Terryl: You remind me of what i tried to post last week, one word of which managing to emerge ‘Speech

- 12/23/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Weird! Its done it again. Speech is less than, I have spoken, is less than, What was that? equates to discursive ego or, if i understand what good people here have been trying to teach me, the refusal of castration.
I understand that something of being emerges beyond the end of discourse(thought) in meditation, but the clinic works differently, the exhaustion of discourse(s) No?

- 12/23/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Thank-you Sol. I have my Christmas present! Your truncated lines remind me that the ladies requested a literature of me
so, i offer

thirst

She, she wants the sky and sea
the full pacific, and yet,
she is it
i love her helplessly
without head or arms
just a trunk that drinks and overflows
folding rivers of her
into my heart
hand over fist

- 12/24/06
Author : violet
Comment:
jampa - I think I have it... “the unconscious altogether exterior..” comes up with the cry, with the crying. With Lacan the crying of the babe is a word - and this is what makes him a “human being,” that he speaks. So even if the fetus has a certain degree of existence only after birth he cries: speaks - only now he is a human being

- 12/24/06
Author : terry1
Comment:
Just been looking at some of the Videos…. I’d like to thank Perfume and the rest of ther Lacanian Team for all her/their work throughout the year and through years past.

- 12/26/06
Author : perfume
Comment:
You are very welcome Terry1… A Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year to you, and a Very Special one to Chris Sands, to jampa, to Sol... to violet, to alice, to paul, from perfume

- 12/26/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you dear Perfume

- 12/26/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
So wise and reticent, so warm and generous!
Ps: Where’s cs? on holiday with Tracey?

- 12/26/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(re. 7) All my hopes line up with this moment of anticipation, Jampa. Do you think Tracey Emin has idle moments and maybe a friend who’d mention LacInk and the famous art+Lac symposia - and someone who only thinks of her? … You have to admit this is all very unlikely … But, the problem was, I didn’t know what to do with comment 47 (A+L symposia) …
… Even if Zizek had in mind nineteenth century music, the notion of contemporary work decontextualized is a problem. Struggling with the question of inexistence, latter day conceptual artists make very little money. And realizing Tracey may never come to my rescue, I’ve begun work on a remake of Dicken’s Christmas Carol - with TE. as Scrooge.

- 12/26/06
Author : jampa
Comment:
Re 7? CS: Surely you don’t mean ‘Gilles and Felix…’?

- 12/27/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
no 47 - last message at ‘art + Lacan symposia’

- 12/28/06
Author : blaquier
Comment:
http://www.lacan.com/zizviol.htm
Interessante perspective mais alors pourquoi ne rien dire du travail de J. Ranciere mais aussi et surtout, P. Legendre ou Pierre Klossowski qui, ˆ la lettre, tire quelques conséquences, avant mme “Kant avec Sade” de la dérive pornocratique du politique…

La derniere publication de Jonathan Littell apporte un démenti à la vulgate lanzmannienne et au club des “nous autres Modernes” lesquels intrumentalise le crime nazi pour dédouaner le surmoi occidental postnazi ou la surmoisation de la politique colonisatrice de la Palestine chrétienne et musulmane par ce qui reste un surnom “Israel” hors de la topograhie abrahamique du procès monothéiste.
JLB

- 12/28/06
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I have difficulty translating, but if this is commenting on a text, you might introduce the text before commenting … ?

- 01/03/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
Happy New Year to each and every dear correspondent. The babelization of this board (i should learn French, my kids are)would seem to have shut us up, co-inciding i think with seeing Arriaga’s ‘Babel’ the other night and wondering about the different registers in which contributors post here- the theoretical, the clinical, the uncastrated. Each seems to meet with its own noisy silence- often.
Chris: 47- My own experiences of art tell me that we need both, an acontextual immediacy and an historical situating of the work, but how acontextual is any experience? I think i understand what Zizek means by ‘the truth itself which speaks’, but is this a trans-historical truth? And what peculiar history enables access, in the privileged viewer, to this ‘truth’?

- 01/03/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I’d say Zizek describes something he finds with Wagner - and perhaps, what was found can be found with contemporary art.
I keep returning to Wajman’s use of the phrase, ‘the work of art’. With the ‘Courtil papers’ (online) there’s reference to the (relentless) work of autistic children.
And, towards the end of his ‘Guiding Principles …’, Eric Laurent makes the case that an analyst’s not autistic. … …
Can ‘the work of art’ be relentless?
I’d like to posit the idea that the work of art is overworked. If the work of art involves the knots of a sinthome, the work is also tied to excerpts and contextualizing as excerpt.

- 01/05/07
Author : alice
Comment:
Lacan talks of the truth in ƒcrits, in the chapter on Science and Truth, … Of course it is the unconscious to say what’s true about the true… and at certain point …
Me, the truth, speaks

- 01/07/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
I just found a new page in Lacan dot com, a BLOG page at http://www.lacan.com/blog/index.html with new articles by Zizek and Badiou (especially his controversy in France with the Jean-Claude Milner group that accuse him of being Maoist ans Anti-Semitic). How do we like the BLOG?

- 01/07/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(Alice) Had put forward reading of JAM’s two versions of the unconscious (latest LacInk) … so, can I say two truths?
(Rupert) But, no mention of JA Miller on new page (?)

- 01/07/07
Author : admin
Comment:
rupert, we are only now getting to understand the blogg and how it works…
Chris - we are working with putting a Miller article, it will very soon be ready

- 01/07/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
No mention of David Ben Gurion either! What a link Rupert! Getting drunk on Saturday with some young jews, amazed at the fort/da of Jewhood, each the mensch and the zionist and the regular aussie good bloke, lord love us, how they crave Badiou’s extinction of the ‘Jew’ signification!

- 01/08/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I can be bold online, so have posted comment on Badiou blog, but why the attached legal ad. (near comment box) or is it a joke?

- 01/11/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
So many changes afoot (!), Jacques-Alain Miller article now at http://www.lacan.com/blog/index.html
Have tried to find translations of Gerard Wajcman’s work and have (since last summer) urged Amazon to send me catalogue of Maison Rouge exhibition, but the catalogue is hard to come by!

- 01/11/07
Author : violet
Comment:
CS - here’s some information you may enjoy,
La Comédie de Reims ——–Festival “ˆ scène ouverte” ———-création de———–L’Objet du siècle————–d’après le livre de Gérard Wajcman ———— conception et interprétation Scali Delpeyrat- mercredi 14 et jeudi 15 décembre à 19h————au FRAC-ancien collège des jésuites—————1 place Museux, Reims————la location est ouverte, ˆ la Comédie, 3 chaussée Bocquaine, 51100 Reims renseignements 03 26 48 49 00——– -site: www.lacomediedereims.fr

- 01/12/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
My French isn’t brilliant Violet, but do you go to this event … or do you know more. The website seems interesting.

- 01/12/07
Author : violet
Comment:
CS - since yu were asking about Gerard Wajcman and his exhibition at La Maison Rouge, I thought you would be interested in knowing of this new activity of his…
this is an invitation of Gérard Wajcman to a Festival for his book L’Objet du sicle, which we love. I know it’s translated into Spanish, but it’s not translated into English, at least not for now…

- 01/12/07
Author : admin
Comment:
all messages are being filtered because of SPAM. The filter seems to be working but it could be that some messages we never get to see … and in this case we wouldn’t even know…
please verifye your messages are on the messageboard, and if they are not there, please tell me about it.

- 01/12/07
Author : admin
Comment:
or e-mail us at lacink@lacan.com

- 01/13/07
Author : admin
Comment:
Jampa are you there?
Sol? Terry1?
Let’s review the list — like in school…. the antispam device could be too strong…. leave people outside. If this is so don’t hesitate to e-mail me at lacink@lacan.com

- 01/13/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Have just left a message on art+Lacan symposia, but could it be that there’s now so much choice leaving a message, so many places to leave one? There’s certainly now homework. On Lacan.com’s main page there’s reference to messageboard, symposia and the new blog page, but the ’site map’ page still provides old info. re symposia and no reference to the new blog page.

- 01/14/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
Yup, present, but happy to be reading rather than interjecting in otherwise sensible (or mute!) conversations. Thank-you dear Chris, i have Ric Loose’s book now and it may shut me up for some time, (though no promises). I love this warning, ‘The tendency in addicts to idealize the therapist or THE TREATMENT IDEOLOGY (my caps) is not without danger… Freud made it abundantly clear that patients must be denied… which they desire most… or they will not assume responsibilty for their… suffering’. A commonplace i guess for you lot, but an idealization of the ideology, or dogma, as Chris suggested a while ago, is something J.A.Miller is over?

- 01/14/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
(Jampa) - Gosh, Lacan.com have ‘put us all to work”!
I think you have to be careful with ‘commonplaces’ and ‘denial’. Re. denial, there’s the idea of ‘clinical structure’ which gives credence to the idea that the therapist ‘varies’ his or her approach to the work. If denial has to do with ‘demand’ but not ‘desire’, then it might be possible to look at how these terms are made sense of in the context of therapy. But all this seems a long way from JAM’s references to the implications of late Lacan. Zizek is certainly critical of JAM’s willingness to enter into public debate re. psychoanalysis and attempts in France to regulate the profession.
It’s a while since I looked at Rik Loose’s book, but I remember use of the phrase ‘the administration of jouissance’ …
If use of alcohol and drugs leads into the field of ‘contemporary symptoms’ (see Howard Britton), then the field can be linked to growing regulation in our lives and the subversive pun - the administration of jouissance.

- 01/14/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
ps. (re. the self regulation of homework) Before being ‘pulled up’ perhaps, should have said (3rd line comment 30, above) - If denial has to do with ‘demand’ but not ‘desire’ in the first place …

- 01/14/07
Author : alice
Comment:
not because admin has missed me - like with Yampa, Sol, Terry… but here I am: present

- 01/14/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
I missed you Alice x

- 01/15/07
Author : alice
Comment:
thank you Chris Sands…… I am trying to figure out what you mean with “denial has to do with demand…” and how desire comes into play…

- 01/28/07
Author : paul
Comment:
PRESENT

- 01/28/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
“Denial has to do with demand and not with desire” makes sense at first, but then who is to tell what an addict desires and where jouissance collides with both, desire and demand… For is an addiction (alcohol, drugs, even therapy in their pharmacological and couch modes) a mental disease? How to get out of it if there is still time?

- 01/15/07
Author : alphonse
Comment:
I just read Badiou’s article on the uses of the word “jew’. What’s wrong with him? In France he’s been targeted as an anti-semite. I think he is an old totalitarian fascist-stalinist. It’s unthinkable, as he proposes, to erase the difference between Jew and Palestine as Saint Paul argued in “there is no longer Jew nor Greek”. I think Badiou really misunderstands the political reality in the Middle East. I wonder what is his religion…

- 01/15/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
Rupert: ‘’The Subject of Addiction: Psychoanalysis and the Administration of Enjoyment’, Ric Loose, 2002, concerns the addict’s relationship with desire and jouissance, having little to do with demand, the addict’s project being to instate the drives as ‘drivers’…
Alphonse: I read Badiou as the anti-anti semite, that no word has been loaded like ‘jew’ since ‘roman’ for the ‘dark ages’. We can and will unload it

- 01/15/07
Author : sol
Comment:
I’m still here
I have not read Rik Looses’ books, but some articles
which I enjoyed.
I do understand he’ll be speaking in Australia
this year.

- 01/18/07
Author : terry1
Comment:
Yes I am here admin. But I must admit I feel the old formula was better although this is better for reference. I am working very hard and log-on when I can. ALL contributions are appreciated.

- 01/18/07
Author : terry1
Comment:
Sol he’s a nice man, Rik Loose. Heard him speak on Toxicomania

- 01/18/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
Jampa, I’m less concerned with addiction in theory than with practice. For books are books and real life, well real life is full of demands. In any case I think that addictions are related to drives which are mechanical in nature, Eros and Thanatos, especially Thanatos.

- 01/18/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
but Rupert, surely the process of thinking about practice involves writing, sometimes notes etc. and JAM has something to say about the place of writing and texts in psychoanalysis in the latest LacInk. I suppose you are referring to theory divorced from practice (’I'm less concerned with addiction in theory than with practice’), but surely the idea of practice needs to be rigorous too. There’s an interesting sounding show at a Dublin gallery called BEYOND THE STUDIO http://www.hughlane.ie which looks at the notion of ’studio practice’ for the artist. This questioning of what is meant by ‘practice’ (in psychoanalysis) seems particularly Lacanian.

- 01/18/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
sorry, not a show but a symposium

- 01/18/07
Author : sol
Comment:
Rupert, how is thanatos mechanical?

- 01/19/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Am struck by just how small ‘our world’ is.
In the world of art and psychoanalysis, Lacanian Ink seems very unique, but despite an exceptional journal and website and the importance of the relationship of contemporary art and analysis - for example, we seem a surprisingly small group of people. I wonder if this somehow relates to the topic of theory and practice ?

- 01/23/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
I’m sure Chris, that this island is not a continent has to do with theory and practice, because the theoretical venturer into this zone of practitioners is brazen and rare, like me! And then there’s the sea eagles! Is there some way to be more inclusive, to answer the posts that aren’t concerned with Badiou or Zizek or J.A,- or the synth-homme, the latter not occuring in Lacan’s symposia until the, as yet, untranslated? Many visitors to this site, i’m sure, are just getting their heads around the RSI, let alone the Borromean knot! or post-Lacanian commentary thereupon! Can’t sea eagles peck contentedly amongst the mutton birds, every now and then?

- 01/23/07
Author : jampa
Comment:
eg: ‘An ego that is the discourse of the Other is speaking in tongues, the unconscious is constituted in the camp of the Other. The ego comes about via an image outside itself. The subject is the one element in human existence that truly does not belong to an outside camp. It is the exception.’ Ric Loose. I, for example, have given ample opportunity for someone here to say so… but yes, a messageboard is necessarily an encryptographicological entity

- 01/23/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
How is Thanatos mechanical? Well, drives are what they are, there is a kind of automatism in them. For instance alcoholism is meant to be a mental disease where due to the proper nature of the alcoholic the death drive, that is to drink and thereby to incur in “behavioral excesses”, tends to preclude social integration whereby creating defense mechanisms that in turn feed the death drive. Although the consciousness of the disease could be present at all times, there is only a brief moment, actually a very brief one, when the automatism of Thanatos has a chance to be reverted to that of Eros (if you will). These instances, I believe, are not motivated by notions of jouissance or even desire, they just happen.
In any case it’s a very complex subject which of course deserves ample consideration.

- 01/23/07
Author : violet
Comment:
I like Jampa’s drives turning into drivers - very illuminating

- 01/23/07
Author : alice
Comment:
yes, I was thinking, is - drive turning into drivers - what you call a pun? such a pity that it cannot be translated into other languages…

- 01/23/07
Author : sol
Comment:
thankyou rupert. The drives as automatum seem closer to Freud’s use of ‘instinct’
It seems to me that the drinking, where it causes problems for the person, is sometimes
a symptom, (perhaps obsessional, perhaps melancholic, sometimes hysteric) and sometimes
the enactment of an unmediated drive - a drive on the borderline of an instinct - that is,
with no unconscious meaning.
It is strange, CS, as you say, but it is stranger that we are here at all.

- 01/24/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Sol, you separate drive and symptom, but surely there’s an aspect of the symptom which is real and if we’re concerned with this register, we are less concerned with the subject and more concerned with the drive? If Eros and ‘is mate Thanatos can also be subject and ‘death drive’, then Thanatos is ‘hard’, not ‘mechanical’. Artists can be obsessives, who find it hard when they take too much notice of Thanatos.

- 01/27/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
A drive on the borderline of an instinct? Hmm.. In French “drive” is “pulsion”, a far better rendition than Strachey’s “instinct” for it conveys the notion of something “alive” yet without the consciousness of it. Would that entail unconscious activity of some sort? Maybe so… To me the English “drive” really brings about the idea of the mechanical, of the automaton, of some action “performed” without realizing it. Does it make sense in English? Well, you have addictions that are centered on body dependency, then you have others, like alcohol, gambling or drugs, that are truly mental, and in these cases we may speak of them being obssessional to the point of disrupting any “moral” behavior. Is this Thanatos? Now, the pairing of Eros and Thanatos is oppositional rather than complementary, and art materializes in psychoanalysis through sublimation - “ce destin de la pulsion”.

- 01/27/07
Author : joe chi
Comment:
I’d like to know of any Lacanian Psychoanalist who practice in Ventura County, California. Any referrals would be greatly appreciated.
Joe C

- 01/27/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
Rupert, has responded to your comment (54), next door, in ‘art and Lacan symposia’

- 01/27/07
Author : chris sands
Comment:
sorry, bad grammar. 56 should read - Rupert, (I) have responded to …

- 01/28/07
Author : alice
Comment:
Rupert - so which are the addictions centered on body dependency?

- 01/30/07
Author : rupert
Comment:
Actually there are addictions such as alcoholism, gambling, cocaine which are related to structural behavior patterns, that is they appear as ¬symptoms¬ of what can be termed paranoia, schizophrenia, sometimes these ¬symptoms¬ are preceded or are concelaed by manias or melancholy. Nowadays they are mostly treated with anti-depressants of some sort. On the other hand there are addictions centred on bodily functions (if my English is proved correct) such as compulsive eating, tobacco, addictions to medicaments that find they origin in some disfunction or lack in the body metabolism. In the USA, but also in Europe lately, self-help therapies work well with these. Again, this is very general and we should try not to generalize. In fact psychoanalysis has always tried to avoid these topics, being generally the field of psychiatry where ¬politics¬- by governments, medical institutions, pharmaceuticals multinationals, health care insurances and even human resources departments - have a say.