ARCHIVE - 02/21/04 - 05/06/08
Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
Carmen, Sol, just to make you feel better have pasted part of a text sent out to therapists in the UK.
Its in the ‘forum’ Lacan symposia ‘evaluation’ section.
Comment by Sol — June 5, 2008
t makes me think carmen that I feel much more unhappy since my analysis
some days I wonder why I still like psychoanalysis at all
Comment by carmen teixidor — June 5, 2008
Poor Didier Anzieu. it’s rare to see faces so openly unhappy these days. unless you go to war torn countries.
i guess that france after the war was a very grim country, and anti-depressant were not given easily then.
he was doing it the hard way through psychoanalysis with Lacan.
what a cultural contrast with the US news and ads and all its smiling laughing faces.
i guess it’s culturally unacceptable here not to want to disguise or hide a depression.
but your comments made me laugh anyway,
carmen
Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
oops sorry, thought it had been deserted!
Comment by admin — June 5, 2008
You mean “the introduction of images has had an odd effect next door at the messageboard” because it stopped functioning? This is my fault. I made a big mistake changing the messageboard address, and then learned you are not suppose to do that. I am waiting for some expert on Wordpress to come and help…
Comment by Chris Sands — June 5, 2008
It seems the introduction of images has had an odd effect next door at the messageboard and I wonder whether this poses a question or two about images. So how do we come to images here? As an artist, I could say I work with them, but what happens here?
During a recent spell when the space I use as a studio was open to the public, someone asked me about my paintings. I said, I sometimes don’t know what to say about paintings but with video or text it’s somehow easier. Afterwards I thought, with painting there’s a push towards words and with video, the production of a text precedes the work of video … however, the question of permission(s) is never far away from questions surrounding images…
Comment by violet — June 4, 2008
CS - The owl in the background sounds happier than Didier Anzieu at 9:04 pm
Comment by Chris Sands — June 4, 2008
Here is Didier Anzieu
Didier Anzieu didn’t look very happy at 9.04pm !
Comment by alice — June 2, 2008
CS — look what I found………...
1949 Didier Anzieu starts analysis with Jacques Lacan ————>1952 Didier Anzieu ends analysis with Jacques Lacan
Comment by Sol — June 2, 2008
thanks Alice
thanks for the photo CS
Comment by carmen teixidor — June 2, 2008
I don’t know either. but didier was a student of lacan, that i know.
carmen
Comment by alice — May 21, 2008
Didier Anzieu son of AimÞe - Marguerite Paintaine who was later to become Marguerite Anzieu - if he was in analysis with Lacan?………not that I know about
Comment by alice — May 20, 2008
Here’s another nice passage “I might put it this way – it sounds banal, but in my case it seems true: I became a psychoanalyst to care for my mother. Not so much to care for her in reality, even though I did succeed in helping her, in the last quarter of her life, to find a relatively happy, balanced life. What I mean is, to care for my mother in myself and other people. To care, in other people, for this threatening and threatened mother…” APP 20 (Anzieu, Didier, Une Peau pour les pensÞes (Paris : ApsygÞe, 1991)
Comment by admin — May 20, 2008
CSS - I found out about uploading images in the symposium using the forum experience… all very superficial, so probably there is much more to it,
we need to find out
Comment by Chris Sands — May 20, 2008
If depression can be linked to Freud’s seminal ‘Mourning and Melancholia’, Aimee contends with grief. In a symbolic and real way, she represents and embodies her dead sister and her mourning and impossible mourning (melancholia) return as Didier Anjieu and stillborn child …
Was Anjieu in analysis with Lacan?
Comment by alice — May 20, 2008
“Why was she depressed? Because of her sensitive character. It made her unable to deal with my birth, which brought back the terrible memory of the stillborn baby. And why this sensitivity? I think it was due to the circumstances of her own birth.
[…] My mother only spoke openly of this once. But I knew it as a family legend. I think her depression goes back to this untenable position. She had put it off after the birth of her little girl who was stillborn, which seemed an implacable repetition of fate. And then my birth, which was successful, brought back that intolerable threat… APP 19-20
Comment by Chris Sands - May 20, 2008
Many thanks Admin. but does this mean we should only use gif files, so perhaps convert jpeg to gif? Or does the system automatically convert one to the other? I think this has to do with different methods of file compression
Comment by alice - May 20, 2008
Sol - of the initials: 1991 APP (Appendix) Anzieu, Didier, Une Peau pour les pensÞes (Paris : ApsygÞe, 1991)
Comment by admin - May 20, 2008
CS - the system wouldn't take "jpg"... finally I put the cockerel "gif" in a lacan.com page and that worked. This means you can make the image in your blog big - - - they don't affect each other
Comment by Chris Sands - May 29
the cockerel is one of a few hens that wonder about an Elizabethan castle. The castle is out at sea and closed for long periods.
Comment by Sol - May 28, 2008
Thanks for following up with the versions of the stories of Aimee and Didier Alice. Can you elaborate that second reference please? What do th einitials stand for, i would like to read more.
Comment by Chris Sands - May 27, 2008
Well this is a first! The image (transported by admin) is taken from a blog https://chrissands.wordpress.com/_- via the forum symposium annexe.
ps. admin, were you able to do this using the instructions above?
Comment by Chris Sands - May 26, 2008
ps. the push to find a place of safety still exists and people still push to go into hospital when in crisis.
Comment by Chris Sands - May 26, 2008
No, tried it (82) but nothing happened. I had in mind the trauma of images, but it will have to wait. Carmen, Alice, reference to Anjieu's mother seems to be reference to trauma. Material that can't be forgotten and can never be repressed. AimÞe apart, we now use technology to regulate daily doses of trauma, but never seem far away from it. In this respect, an art place (gallery, museum, street) becomes a location never far away from 'the action'. I want to find out more about about Aimee, but if she spent long periods in hospital, hospitals (asylums) were also places close up to the proximity of trauma._These places of 'safety' are fast disappearing to be replaced by versions of 'care in the community', and at the same time we are never far away from a cyclone, earthquake or reference to the Other's personal calamity. Does technology (television, mobile phones, internet) replace asylums as regulators of trauma? Is there time to look at the jouissance involved?
Comment by admin - May 26, 2008
I did some changes to the messageboard and it stopped working, sorry for that, we'll have to wait till I get someone to help me fix it
Comment by admin - May 25, 2008
look whose here 
Comment by alice - May 25, 2008
Here's two versions of the touching story of the little girl that got burnt in the fireplace... The first version is Jacques Lacan's, the second one Didier Anzieu's
1 The family talk a lot about a violent emotion the mother suffered while she was pregnant with my patient. The eldest daughter died as the result of a tragic accident: she fell, before her mother's very eyes, into the wide-open door of a lighted stove and died very rapidly of severe burns. JL 174-5
2 [My mother] was the third child in the family, the third or fourth... That's the problem. Before her, in fact, three daughters were born. The family lived in a large stone house close to the stable and the fields. The main room was heated by a large fireplace filled with big burning logs, where they cooked, and there were benches in it that you could sit on. This happened before my mother was born. It was a feastday. Marguerite, the youngest of the three daughters, had an organdie dress on, ready to go to church. She'd been left for a moment in the charge of the eldest girl, the one who was to become my godmother. The child was lightly dressed, it was cold, she went up to the fire to warm herself... and was burnt alive. It was a dreadful shock for her parents and her two sisters. So my mother was conceived as a replacement for the dead child. And since she was another girl, they gave her the same name, Marguerite. The living dead, in a way... It's no coincidence that my mother spent her life finding ways to escape from the flames of hell... It was a way of accepting her fate, a tragic fate. My mother only spoke openly of this once. But I knew it as a family legend. I think her depression goes back to this untenable position. APP 19-20
carmen teixidor — May 21, 2008 @ 10:22 am
thank you Alice, thank you Sol. i did not know about Anzieu’s mother.
his book, “Le Corps de l”Oeuvre” is one of my favorite books ever. it’s all about artistic creation (versus creativity), especially literary creation.
i don’t know if the book has been translated. the title means: the body of work, or more precisely: the body of the work (i am not sure it makes sense in English).
the quotation about why he became a psychiatrist makes so much sense.
carmen
sol — May 20, 2008 @ 9:27 pm
Carmen I have read Anzieu’s ‘Freuds self analysis and the discovery of psychoanalysis’
which I found interesting, and worth reading, and some about the skin, but not the book you mention.
Alice, I didn’t realize that Anzieu’s mother was Aimee, but have just looked up some writing
on that and there is a re-naming of the mother after someone whose skin was burnt-
thanks for that connection..
alice — May 20, 2008 @ 2:14 pm
carmen - 72 - Anzieu’s mother was a mental patient. Jacque Lacan interviewed her in April 1921, when she was arrested and then sectioned for attacking a famous stage actress with a knife. Lacan wrote his doctoral thesis on Marguerite Anzieu under the pseudonym of ‘Aim�(c)e’, using her case-history as a prototype of the role of personality in psychopathic development. Didier Anzieu (1922-1999), in a set of interviews conducted in 1982, when he was sixty said: ‘I became a psychoanalyst to care for my mother. Not so much to care for her in reality, even though I did succeed in helping her, in the last quarter of her life, to find a relatively happy, balanced life. What I mean is, to care for my mother in myself and other people. To care, in other people, for this threatening and threatened mother… “
Mia — May 18, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
could admin delete my last message?
Chris Sands — May 18, 2008 @ 2:04 am
Mia, there’s so much here on Lacan.com.
Zizek’s How to Read Lacan https://www.lacan.com/zizhowto.html
or so many of his works
- look through ‘SYMPTOM’ articles (here, see above)
at Darian Leader, who has even written a comic book introduction
Mia — May 17, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
quick question: does anyone have any recommendations re: introductory books on Lacan readable by art students (who smoke too much pot..) or those with a more literary/cultural focus rather than a straight psychoanalytic focus? i’m stuck, but have to organize the curriculum - Chris Sands you may know of texts for art students …
carmen teixidor — May 16, 2008 @ 8:58 pm
Is anybody familiar with Didier Anzieu’s work? especially “Le Corps de l’Oeuvre”
carmen
Chris Sands — May 12, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
There’s a conversation starting on the messageboard about ’semblance’ and ’sinthome’ and something you say here (C), makes me think of the two s’s. But also, it reminds of a conversation that bothered me some time ago. A friend was talking about art - and referring, I think, to 20,000 years of Australian art, talked about ‘art always being there’. Art always being there, bothered me then and it bothers me now. I don’t think art’s always there and the notion that it is, I think somehow amounts to what Lacan calls a ‘lack of lack’. So, for an artist, this ‘lack of lack’ could be a dangerous state of affairs or symptom. But if this something that’s always there is somehow symptomatic of the sinthome or at least symptomatic for three or four hundred years in the case of Joyce, then the sinthome also amounts to a sentence, even if it can’t be a signifier or semblance.
Carmen, I had to reread your last sentence. In Seminar X1, Lacan says something about showing work and the flooding of the superego.
carmen teixidor — May 12, 2008 @ 9:20 am
i haven’t read the sinthome. i will as soon as i get to france. i’ll read it my usual way: opening the book at any page, see what resonates, continue or not. open another page, etc…
meandering through it.
i feel like i have photographed my subconscious when i find those weird scenes in the mirror.
sharing and showing is on another level for me. very unpleasant extension of the work.
carmen
Chris Sands — May 9, 2008 @ 4:25 am
dear Carmen, your question at the end seems very large first thing in the morning. I imagine you’re in New York or somewhere close, whereas I’m waking up on a little English speaking island in sight (some days) of the coastline of Normandy. So … far off the beaten track where the art world’s concerned!!!!! Despite the proximity of France and the wrath of some of my ancestors, I speak very little French, so make do with Lacan and Lacanians in translation. Because of this, Josefina and Lacanian Ink have made a big difference for me and I think this site is quite extraordinary.
Like many others I came to Lacan’s translated texts via Zizek and others. Seminar XI is possibly particularly relevant for artists, so too ‘Encore’ (Seminar XX) and the untranslated ‘Sinthome’ seminar. Perhaps the question of art relating to Lacan needs to be put the other way around. At some kind of first thing in the morning theoretical level, I might start with Warhols fifteen minutes (now 15 seconds) of fame and the latter day effects of Walter Benjamin’s ‘art in an age of mechanical reproduction’ and get into bed with Lacan’s notion of the ’sinthome’.
The Joycean (sinthome) symptom is a difficult idea, mainly because in practice it makes sense retrospectively, in a way that Lacan looked back at the writing of James Joyce or saw Joyce’s symptom as intimately connected to his life and work. So Joyce writes and makes his name despite ‘difficulties’ he has with his father and paternity. And looking around at the art world (first thing in the morning) can also be looking around at a world of sinthomes, only as someone suggested, sinthomes don’t talk to each. So, to shorten my response to your question (and there are too many gaps), I’d say, for me, the late Lacan of the sinthome makes some sense in terms of ‘the work of art’ (and my work), but my shift is always from the pervasive silence of the work to ‘a talking’ - to a ‘collaboration’ - to a showing - to a viewing - to the unconscious. And I’ll probably regret saying most of this later today if i get a chance to do some of my own stuff.
carmen teixidor — May 8, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
hi Chris
i think i have to get more familiar with the site, read all the blogs, people’s comments, see your work…. i am excited i have found it. thank you for having this dialogue with me.
a sculptor’s ear, maybe. except that you witness the actual movement and transformation. but yes, ear becomes the matter i work with as i would work with clay, or plaster…
i am chasing images because that’s what i am after, and that’s what i find.
veteran’s home: i mean the house of a future world war (2,4,5,6…?) veteran. ears are known to be taken as trophies of war, or hunting. i’m afraid not much will have changed on that level then.
i am very literal in my work.
i have not read lacan in translation (french is my native language). i can’t even imagine his work translated. english is so concrete, and french so abstract.
but there must be some good translations.
how do you see art relating to lacan?
Chris Sands — May 8, 2008 @ 2:02 am
oops, don’t know why there are two ’sometimes’ above
Chris Sands — May 8, 2008 @ 2:01 am
hi Carmen, you’re speaking to someone on the other side of the Atlantic … what’s a veterans home?
Your artist’s ear sounds as if it might be a sculptor’s ear (’constantly manipulated and transformed’), but to be chasing images … don’t they sometimes sometimes come to you?
carmen teixidor — May 7, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Hi. the chase is all within myself, and i am chasing images.
my short is about 2 ears getting separated. one ends up as a trophy in a veteran’s home. the other is constantly manipulated and transformed by an artist.
it’s all very literal.
carmen
Chris Sands — May 7, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Carmen, If there’s a chase do we know who’s in front?
I suppose what cropped up for me (between tortoise and hare) was an idea that I thought had to do with limits.
The conversation goes back a few weeks.
A ‘limit’ in therapy had to do with an insistence on sessions being live and not by phone etc.
- and so I thought about my own work (as an artist) and wondered whether there isn’t something similar happening.
So, I put things on the net etc. but have in mind a world ‘back here’ where the process of making a film for, example, gets caught up in a series of events, conversations and something quite live. Or, at least, I think so …
My limit is ‘not too much in one place’ (in between one form and the next) …
What was your film idea?
carmen teixidor — May 7, 2008 @ 9:21 am
i am not going to address your “if….” questions. there are too may assumptions there. i always go back to my own experience and type of work: yes,in a very simplistic way, images are the imaginary
versions of fantasies. i guess in one way images become symbolic once they are out in society, and represent the monetary value they are given.
adding words to an image is a way to connect it to the “other” world.
why would the virtuality of an image be its context? the context is the real world in which it was created, and in which it appears. Virtual is just a means, a tool.
By “behind the scene” i did not literally mean “behind.” The “behind” could be in front, left or right. I meant that the feeling of a “behind the scene” is the feeling that “that’s not it.” and so the chase goes on.
Chris Sands — May 6, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
Carmen (hello again),
isn’t this ‘layering’ (in itself) somehow symptomatic of what Lacan calls the Imaginary?
And isn’t there more to images (and contemporary art) than the imaginary and something fleeting … fugitive?
There are many Lacans too and the Lacan of the sinthome ties the imaginary to the symbolic and the real and sometimes, it seems, this gesture privileges art or turns ‘the work of art’ towards a holy war versus many versions of the superego.
Is there always ‘a behind the scenes’?
If contemporary art is also a question of the context of the work, how do we begin with ‘context’ and ‘virtual’?
If the context is a ‘virtual world’, do we need to locate this world on the way to the question of context?
Is it halfway between what Eric Laurent calls ‘religious fundamentalism’ and ‘narco capitalism’?
And now look what’s happened … those ‘layers’ have caused too many questions …
carmen teixidor — May 6, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
responding to chris’s comment on images being objects sometimes: yes: in a very literal sense that’s why i abandonned sculpture. literally again: that’s why virtual is great. also layerings of meanings, with layering of video sequences.
but in the end it’s impossible to win: be it virtual or material there is always a “behind the scene,” in that sense an image remains an object to be replaced, and replaced, and replaced….by yet another, and another…
Chris Sands — May 6, 2008 @ 2:25 am
Braxton, Carmen, have posted something in the forum annexe
braxton fuzzledorf — May 2, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Your use of images to break up your text on the wordpress blog is particularly interesting. I stared at the coins on the bed for at least 2 or 4 minutes before i finished reading . . .
Re: the personal and political in contemporary art - i think the political has become more personal in recent centuries through improved information technologies from the printing press to the web - at the same time, we’ve come to feel increasingly alienated from the political process (semi-paradoxically, this is one of the consequences of spreading Democracy - whereby giving everyone a say means that WHAT each person says becomes less and less significant to the overall scheme), and that alienation then leads us to channel our political feelings through outlets of expression more personal than just the voting booth or townhall meeting, extending to the art, fashion, literature, ironic and subversive humor, angry music, etc . . . there’s also a sense in which the aforementioned technologies have made art (and fashion and music, etc, etc) LESS personal and MORE political in their very essence, through mass production, etc - it’s like a simultaneous merger of the two realms - yet another dichotomy dissolved in the acid bath of the postmodern.
Chris Sands — April 24, 2008 @ 1:07 pm
Braxton, please no apologies. Surely to have feelings is the main thing and many different ones in the course of each day …
Re. the personal: There is a tendency in contemporary art to link the personal to the political and whether or not this can be linked to an attack on psychoanalysis is one thing, but I was also thinking about the use of images and text here. Another coordinate (for me) is the HM Brousse paper ‘When It Ceases’ (latest ‘Psychoanalytic Notetbooks’) and different versions of disrupting a continuim (the time of the session, the timelessness of the unconscious). In a sense, use of images to break up texts has to do with an art and psychoanalysis symposium, but images seem sometimes objects and sometimes not.
Sol — April 24, 2008 @ 12:51 am
Sarah I checked the Green but I was mistaken
- it was a reference to Pontalis rather than LaPlanche
I think it’s worth buying - the Green. The Diachrony..is on my
list to buy too..
I have never heard of this under the counter download site-
if you find it again could you post it??
Have you looked on https://www.abe.com (or abebooks?) for second hand
copies..and Karnac of course..
braxton fuzzledorf — April 22, 2008 @ 1:04 pm
Chris: Ah, the orange - kind of intense, but not bad - and yes, no references to Klein’s blue, i promise.
What do you envision with regards to making here more personal?
Your forum images and blog are thought provoking, but i hesitate to make comments for fear of not being clear in my meaning and thereby again incurring your wrath. In any case, i apologize if i inadvertantly contributed to pissing you off.
alice — April 22, 2008 @ 5:11 am
yes “art and lacan symposia’ images… and very beautiful photograph, did oyu do the photograph?
Chris Sands — April 22, 2008 @ 2:29 am
Have submitted another ‘forum’ topic relating (possibly) to the topic above, but under the ‘Miller, Wajcman, Badiou, Zizek’ heading. Its also the return of the symposium annexe idea.
Chris Sands — April 22, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
Well Braxton, how do you find it here? Here its orange, so don’t say anything about Yves Klein’s blue!
Ref. to a theory and practice divide in the context of psychoanalysis was reference to the forum material. So, ref. to efforts to impose state regulation on Lacanian analysts and their practice etc. and (for me) all this relates to a conversation that included mention of a paper called ‘When It Ceases’ by HM Brousse (when Lacan’s work goes beyond the timelessness of the unconscious).
If I was a little pissed off, it had to do with frustration trying ever so hard to say something (whatever it is), but I think Freud said something about the unconscious and antagonism.
So, we have two sites here and I was dreaming the possibility that here could be a little more ‘personal’, imagining somehow that, given present conditions, the personal could be political in the context of contemporary art.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 22, 2008 @ 4:28 pm
Well Chris, here we are at your preferred location . . . can i reiterate now that i don’t follow you with regards to the state, disjunctions of theory and practice, and, for that matter, “diversions” as “part of the territory” in my posts to the other messageboard?
It really isn’t clear to me at all. Are you angry?
Sarah — April 19, 2008 @ 5:47 am
yes Sol, i’ve been intending to get Greens’s Time in Psychoanalysis, and also Greens “Diachrony and psychoanalysis” as it’s not in my university library - there’s another text i’ve been trying to buy Muller & Richardsons “Language and Psychoanalysis: a readers guide to Ecrits” but it’s impossible to find - when i try amazon it costs $110.00 !! There used to be this completely illegal website that had all these texts to download but it disappeared on me ! (somebody got cought!)
Sol — April 18, 2008 @ 2:20 am
Sarah, I read a reference to his use of the term ‘afterwardness’ in the book by Andre Green - Time in Psychoanalysis - I can check the references in there, but it will be a few days until I return to my bookshelf
Sarah — April 11, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
In the text named “Essays on Otherness” (Jean Laplache), Laplanche writes a short paper entitled “notes on afterwardsness” referring the the Freudian concept of Nachtraglichkeit: he states that he is presently working on a larger paper called “the afterwardsness of nachtraglichkeit” which he adds will constitute a chapter of a new book he is wrting on Time.
Does anyone know if he had published this book on Time?, as i am finding it very difficult to locate ?
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 10:24 pm
it is a wordpress device, yes, whatever that means
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 6:44 pm
Mmmmm …
The little icons by the numbers could have pictures though
and there’s a wordpress ‘log on’ facility there too.
Comes close to a typical wordpress format,
which would also allow for images, video (after logging on).
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
yes, it is an upgrade, do you like it?
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
And you’ve changed messageboard format …
admin — April 9, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
Chris Sands……… it works! We fixed it
Chris Sands — April 9, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
B - Sarah’s referring to the seminar after Sem. XV11 - which is not in English,
but ‘the Other side of Psychoanalysis’ was recently available in translation.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 6, 2008 @ 6:50 pm
I like the idea that myth is universal, while dreamstrucure is not: Myth being linked with the human condition and dreamstructure being linked to specific forms of communication . . . there’s far too much universalization of the Oedipal theme in Freud. Our imaginary friend Sigmund understood the mind in a million amazing ways but was at best an unreliable anthropologist. Are there any good translations of the seminars available? I’m feeling defiant today (psychosomatic much?)
Sarah — April 6, 2008 @ 9:52 am
yes chris, he does so in seminar xviii D’un Discours qui ne serait pas du semblant
Chris Sands — April 6, 2008 @ 4:20 am
(replying to 119 on messageboard)
(B) am referring to Antigone and a new reading of the play that Lacan highlights in Seminar VII and elsewhere.
Interestingly, Russell Grigg compares the insights of anthropology (Levi Straus) and psychoanalysis.
Myth is then universal and not tied to particular languages, whereas dream structure (condensation, displacement …) can be linked to particular languages.
Lacan somewhere describes Oedipus as Freud’s dream, hence Lacan’s close attention to speech and the structures of language.
braxton fuzzledorf — April 5, 2008 @ 2:20 pm
I’d be interested in your views on defiance as it relates to both psychoanalysis and art.
Chris Sands — April 5, 2008 @ 4:26 am
Make of it what you will, but above should have put (one before last sentence) ‘… the re-emergence of science versus psychoanalysis and an act of …’.
Chris Sands — April 5, 2008 @ 2:59 am
Have been looking at Russell Grigg’s chapter (Lacan, Language and Philosophy) on Zizek, which talks of the ‘act’, either ethical, hysterical or analytical, seen in terms of both Lacan and Zizek’s reference to Antigone. The author questions the consistency of Antigone’s actions (ate, lament, suicide), when her tragedy can be linked to so much. So where to begin? With Antigone locked in a mausoleum, pensive and sad, defiant to the last, unaware that Creon’s son will be coming to the rescue. Can we suspend the action here and consider the options?
If patriarchal law and the trappings of the symbolic become for Grigg a response and reaction to a fundamental No! and this ‘no’ is characteristic of the hysteric (and ‘Encore’s Other Jouissance), what is Antigone saying in response to CBT, the re-emergence of science versus psychosis and an act of defiance? How does ‘between two deaths’ touch the work of art?
Chris Sands — March 20, 2008 @ 7:04 pm
Making use of the (new) forum, have been trying to link a debate inspired in France concerning ‘evaluation’ to some concerns expressed here. So, a ‘call to the barricades’ in the wake of the ‘Paris Calling’ documents (see forum) was also addressed to artists. This led to thoughts correlating structures in therapy to what could be structures effecting the work of art - in a post Walter benjamin period. The son of friends now suggests ‘resistance to digital art’ as a category, which could be like an insistence of ‘live sessions’ in psychoanalysis.
The message posted on the forum on March 19 (Lacan symposia, ‘evaluation’) was an earlier effort to link psychoanalysis and contemporary art - on an unnamed barricade.
Chris Sands — March 17, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
have posted something in forum (evaluation) re. call for online cartel (+ ‘call to the barricades’)
Chris Sands — March 16, 2008 @ 4:52 pm
Sugar, for some reason your image (and A’s response to it) made me think of Alice’s comment on the messageboard (76) and Magritte’s painting - which is certainly not a pipe …
sugar — March 16, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
I put up some images in the forum… it works well, though it takes a while to get use to it
Chris Sands — March 9, 2008 @ 7:51 am
It's hot where you are, but here its winter turning towards spring and a Sunday morning lull before a storm. Possibly the biggest storm in twenty years is forecasted, so having worked on another blog piece (not ready yet), want to have lunch and walk along the beach with camera and waterproof jacket. This sort of weather was impossible here until recently. Why is no-one putting images on the forum?
Sol — March 9, 2008 @ 2:11 am
I’m here
what are we doing?!
alice — March 2, 2008 @ 9:02 pm
Yes, they can be! Indeed!
and where is Lucky, and jampa…………..?
Chris Sands — March 2, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Have continued an evaluation topic started here on the forum with a little help from Delacroix.
Where are you Sol and Sarah?
Chris Sands — March 1, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
Majid, why not make use of the forum to pose a question that’s important to you? If something is important personally, perhaps you can find a way to convey it. Questions can be infectious.
Majid — February 29, 2008 @ 5:20 am
Hi dear Chris! I wonder if we can have something about the links between Philosophy and psychoanalysis; I mean there is quite a comprehensive amount of philosophical problems thatI think from a Lacanian point of view there can be some ways to scape those deadlocks baring philosophy; problems like the matter of “consciousness”, the “howness” of the relation between “ontology” and “epistemology”, “logicality” vs. “illogicality” and so on. And also I was thinking to find correlates between Psychoanalysis (Lacanian one) and Neuroscientific areas. Can these be helpful? Of course if you may accept me one the members of the so called “cartel”! I’d be grateful!
Chris Sands — February 27, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Now that we’ve a forum that can be used in various ways, I wonder if we could go back to the idea proposed by Sarah. This was the ‘online cartel’ idea. If disruptive material can now be taken out, perhaps we could look again at focusing on specific issues and possibly using a forum topic for this purpose. What interests me particularly as an artist, is what psychoanalysis and Lacan brings to the work of art.
In this respect, what grabs me thinking about recent LacInks, were some of Alain Badiou’s musings about contemporary art and Simon Critchley’s extraordinary piece in the most recent journal. I’d somehow like up to tie some thoughts that emerge from readings with other ideas – against the backdrop of what looks like a very important, fast moving resistance to what might be called a culture of evaluation and commensuration.
The symposium seems the right place to suggest a mini ‘online cartel’ looking at psychoanalysis and contemporary art, but I’m wondering what other topics or areas of concern there are out there??? I don’t know if referring to an ‘online cartel’ is especially useful, but the new forum could open up some new possibilities????
Chris Sands — February 20, 2008 @ 5:12 am
Have posted two texts on the topic of ‘evaluation’ on the new site here.
It’s at https://www.lacan.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7
Well, the joke feels like ‘no joke at the moment’. There’s an assumption that artists are supposed to communicate and one site of this communication is a ‘proposition’. How I like these words and notions - ‘proposition’, ‘collaboration”, axiom’, ‘post art in an age of mechanical production’, new art etc. The artist proposes this and that and with e-flux for example, there are occasional calls for projects and proposals etc. But something odd happens when a text is used to do the communicating, when it approximates the place of art. It wants to be like the work of art itself or it is the work of art. What isn’t funny next is having to rework the work of ‘propositions’ as ‘business plans’. At this point, something happens to the work as it moves towards a currency and Badiou’s artist (fearful of ‘inexistence’, finds himself or herself in the same place as analysts in France who see there’s work to be done resisting the common currency of evaluation. So, when it comes to the measures and outcomes of ‘business plans that artists write’, the artist says ‘who knows what’ll happen’ and this too becomes part of an artist’s currency. What’s then lost is the work of art’s place holding back the gaze.
Sol — February 19, 2008 @ 8:14 pm
by !
I mean it is a good joke in itself
- a double joke
that can’t be recalled..
Chris Sands — February 18, 2008 @ 4:01 am
Sol, sorry for being this vague, but sometimes it really feels as if art could be the only way of telling something and that something could be telling a joke. Doesn’t art work this way? Like Lacan’s love giving what is doesn’t have, we see the joke when we see the work of art, but buildings like jokes perhaps sometimes only work in situ. I think the joke has to do with something visual in the first place, and calling a film ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’ feels both personal and not so personal. Another provisional title is ‘Seeing Through Commissioning Frank Gehry’, but you can see that I can’t tell jokes this way.
Sol — February 18, 2008 @ 2:22 am
!
Chris Sands — February 17, 2008 @ 7:21 pm
Writing that, I worried someone would ask this and I’ll have to find a way to tell it.
Sol — February 17, 2008 @ 6:14 pm
what is the local joke?
Chris Sands — February 17, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
(passage from blog mentioned above -74, includes images)
I’ve a small connection with my favourite journal and the connection touches work I’m doing at the moment. The work’s partly online and my first connection goes back a long way to a passage taken from Jacques Lacan’s account of a trip to the US. There’s reference to Baltimore and something seen from a window. The next connection is a photo of two people taken in front of building by Frank Gehry in New York.
I haven’t been to New York, but where I live, I’m working with others on a small video based project, provisionally called ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’. The first picture in the blog called ‘Conceptual Floating World’ can be linked to the project, so too the notion of ‘collaborations of contemporary art’. First provisional sequences of ‘Commissioning Frank Gehry’ are located in two seaside shelters and this project seems to refer to a local joke.
I live on a small semi self-governing island, where local democracy seems to preclude ‘flashes of brilliance’. What can I say? What remains of an inspired building, a world famous one, where online architects conspire through panes of glass? What happens to intimacy? This text follows an email sent to a friend. In it, I mention the sometimes small gap between what I call ‘my work’ and ‘collaborative work’. The aforementioned Gehry building is called ‘Ship of Glass’.
Sol — February 12, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
there is no subject in science except for the narrator or interrogator of s cience
the historian or philosopher of science for instance or intersecting discourses.
But the relationship between the subject and the scientist -
or rather the relationship between the scientific subject and the divided subject-
is important in the history of science and psychiatry, for psychoanalysis
and for neurosis
Chris Sands — February 12, 2008 @ 5:11 pm
Somehow inspired by messageboard comment (162) a few lines from ‘Le Sinthome’ which begin sounding like a Catechism-
‘We do not believe in the object as such. And we deny that the object can be held by any organ thus conceived, as tool, separate tool - in other words, itself object. In Chomsky’s conception the object is approached by another object. By contrast, it is as a restitution of the subject divided by the operations of language that analysis circulates. It thus puts science as such in question, to the extent that science makes an object into a subject, whereas the subject is in itself divided.’
Sol — February 11, 2008 @ 9:27 am
I agree Sarah, I was using Fonagy as an example:
to ‘prove’ MBT has equivalent ‘outcomes’ to DBT
is pretty pathetic..I don’t think they are intending to
force psychoanalysis into an empirical straitjacket,
as perhaps some universities are - it is more of a
defense against the politics of public psychotherapy,
that they seem a bit lost inside. But I don’t think psychoanalysis
‘knows’ everything..or that empirical research mightn’t
contribute something to ..say for instance social psychoanalysis
the psychoanalysis of groups..I don’t know.
Sarah — February 11, 2008 @ 6:25 am
Something in what you say above Sol makes me react. Indeed the work of Fonagy demonstrates that longer term MBT is suitable for more complex patients, and even does so in an empirically sophisticated way. However, all that time, all that money to build a project that demonstrates something relatively obvious. And that is precicely what forcing psychoanalysis into an empirical paradigm does: long drawn out projects to demonstrate things psychoanalysis already knows - therefore it cannot “add” to psychoanalysic theory, it can only function to fix basic ideas.
Chris Sands — February 11, 2008 @ 2:59 am
Will probably get into trouble for saying this, but having read Daniel Stern many years ago, have sometimes wondered whether there’s more of a connection between Stern’s meticulousness and Lacan’s attention to duration and speech. Despite the territory, I don’t think Stern’s work has much to do with Ego Psychology.
Sol — February 11, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Yes, what about the brief lacanian therapies project?
I have been unable as yet to find further information
about this project, but it reads as if it has some empirical component?
We could look at Fonagy and Bateman et al and their empirical research
in relation to MBT, which Fonagy says is not psychoanalysis,
but which is informed by psychoanalysis - obviously not Lacanian
and oriented towards ego construction perhaps. their findings at
least can be used in teh empirically dominated public clinics
to argue (’prove’) that longer term work is needed with ‘complex’
clients. They currently find that MBT has equivalent outcomes to DBT.
Can anyone imagine a hypothesis that could be posed in relation to
an empirical research project pertaining to Lacanian psychoanalysis?
Sarah — February 10, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Hello Chris,
I can’t point to a broader debate, and perhaps i am wrong in making the connection between what is going on in France right now and my specific question. I will unravel what i said above. I am less concerned with what goes on in Lacanian circles than what goes on in the university.
What i have seen over the last 10 years is that as long as psychanalysis is connected to “the university,” there is an increasing pressure to turn it into a more empirically oriented science. This is perhaps because “the university” is a business where epirical research is “the money.” Nevertheless, theoretical research is being thrown to one side.
Now psychoanalytic research must contain an empirical component so it resembles research that is normally associated with psychology (ie., hypotheses, populations, questionairres, data collection, statistical analyses, variable, models etc.). Is this still psychoanalysis? Is the reaction in France taking into account what goes on in the university?
Majid — February 10, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
…the subjects’ expressions whcih have to be deciphered, …
Majid — February 10, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
I wonder how it would be possible to approach Lacan empirically!!? By the means of questionairs, interviews?!! Then the results ought to be analysed not by SPSS but by a psychoanalyst from a Lacanian point of view; I think becouse in psychoanalysis we deal with the psyche, and I dout it to be that collective, so you can’t set down statistical rules and formulas in order to analyse any empirically given data. These data can in the last be considered as the subjects’ expressions which have to be, as I said, acording to psychoanalytical principls. I am looking foreward to having your oppinions!
Chris Sands — February 10, 2008 @ 8:17 am
Hi Sarah, could you point to a broader debate by citing other approaches within Lacanian circles?
My understanding is that what’s happening in France has to do with resistance to moves to bring psychoanalysis closer to dominant trends and this includes resistance to legislation. Surely, there’s an enormous pull towards elaboration and a reworking of terms and ideas within what (I think) is sometimes called a ‘pure psychoanalysis’. But isn’t there a world of difference between presentation of case studies, for example, and an analysis of contemporary conditions?
One ‘looks’ at some kind of process to bring about new insight perhaps, while the other looks a set of conditions which effect daily life and work. Don’t we see generally a tendency to ‘objectify’ the cause of desire? Aren’t we happier with objects rather than subjects?
Sarah — February 9, 2008 @ 7:57 pm
I would be interested to know the position individuals take concerning the question of bringing “empirical” research to the work of Lacan.
When i say “empirical research” i specifically refer to the use of questionnaires and interview coding together with statistical analyses which produce results that are understood to “prove,” “inform,” or even “elobrate” [what a mess]the theory of Freud/Lacan. Dispite the fact that there seems to be a petition in the name of Jacques-alain Miller against this type of research [perhaps i’m wrong, perhapts it is the “future” of psychoanalysis] there are several members of the NLS that occupy their time with this type of work. Any reactions?
Sarah — February 9, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
CS: I notice the activity on this site has reduced since a (very) minor dispute? i do hope it’s not a result of that.
Chris Sands — February 1, 2008 @ 7:22 am
Good to hear from you Sol.
How the Australian summer?
Have just posted a new ‘FORUM topic’ with a view to looking at how linking images and text could be improved here.
A weblog could provide reference material, including images.
https://chrissands.wordpress.com/
Sol — January 20, 2008 @ 9:21 pm
a closed ruin
a ruined opening
what a beautiful entry (71)CS
Chris Sands — January 28, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
For some reason attached website sometimes gets re-directed to server at present.
Am referring to ‘antigonesplaster.com’ which can be reached via ‘crow on wire’ icon above.
This site will be updated very shortly and will work alongside ‘blog’, which would make it easier putting images onto ‘forum’ pages.
Chris Sands — January 15, 2008 @ 4:09 am
‘Driving yesterday, on the radio I heard talk of the inevitable loss of digital memories (information, records) as technologies change - then musing this wondered whether we shouldn’t attach this observation to an oporia evident in the art world.
In an age when there’s no time to rework an ‘unwritten’ love story and in ‘the age of digital reproduction’, we only see beyond form and content - the invisible page of a new collaborative field.
Once we saw the ‘museum in ruins’, now we know it’s sometimes closed.’
(after Benjamin, first poem addressed to gaps in a symposium text)
Chris Sands — December 20, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
yes, it is quite here. (r)Hope you have a good Christmas too Sol.
Sol — December 19, 2007 @ 11:57 pm
It’s quiet here.(r)Hope everyone has a good christmas, new year and
possibly a holiday. (r)Is anyone familiar with the work of Jean Imbeault? Or
know of (r)any work in english translation? (r)Or the contact details for the publishers
of (r)Le Fait de l’Analyse in which he (?) had an interesting paper..(r)Thanks.
Read you next year.
ps. strangely, Jampa, what you say about the effect of the ’stalker’s
desire’ on his daughter, could be equated with the ‘displacement’ intended
above (164) (r)
Chris Sands — November 16, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Both sites (here, messageboard) endure a running-out-of-energy-moment.
Have just looked at Marie-HÞ(c)lÞ(r)ne Brousse’s ‘Art, the Avant-Garde and
Psychoanalysis’ in the latest ‘Lacanian Compass’. MHB refers to Freud and
Lacan’s ‘thesis that art precedes the analyst as far as knowledge is concerned;
unconscious knowledge’. I was expecting ‘more’ perhaps, but the more that I
was expecting has to do with the place of contemporary art and the place of
contemporary therapy. MHB refers to discourses of art and psychoanalysis, but
(I felt) there’s nowhere mention of an ‘interplay’ hinted at by (philosopher)
Alain Badiou. Badiou refers to the dominance of psychoanalysis if art lives a
psychoanalysis, but MHB turns the equation back to front. Art walks in front
or starts running in time with an Entracte contemporary with Freud. All
artists should be analysts and all analysts artists … (r)
jampa — November 12, 2007 @ 8:15 am
Chris Sands: Would love to see anything you call beautiful but can’t
always. Stalker for me is an individual’s pursuit of the Real with the prayer
(most devout) that even as he fails, co-opted by his co-pursuants, that the
act of attempt counts for result in his offspring. Romance to an extreme, yet
the telekinetic child is also a promise of reward for courage while cowardice
yields itself in perpetuity. The Sacrifice surrenders the world for a (Nietzschean)
apotheosis- they both testify to love of the uncs son or daughter and self,
narratively and formally.. The child dreams her narrative of the father as he
of her. Not patricide nor infanticide but fraternity, dreamt together (r)violet:
please, you tell me (r)
violet — November 12, 2007 @ 2:04 am
jampa –how does Gnosis stand vs the psycho-analytic real ? Is there
Gnosis after the analyst’s knowledge (S2) vs the real involved with him being
- a semblance - of objet a? (r)
violet — November 11, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
A+L annex (at the forum) (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 10:56 am
extra ps. Jampa - have put image from ‘Climates’ on A+L annexe. showing
off having mastered something new (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Jampa - the object of desire isn’t the object cause of desire (object
a), but methinks you’re referring to something which happens, with Lacan and
Oedipus, when the mother’s desire can’t be named. As well, I was referring to
a mutable position and think you refer to a position which gets stuck, as
with the situation when the mother substitutes her partner with the child.(r)Apart
from what seems like a misreading, I’d like to hear what you have to say
about ‘Stalker’ - or Tarkovsky’s legacy.(r)Have recently watched a film called ‘Climates’
by a Turkish director, Nuri Bilge Ceylan, who certainly takes notice of what
Tarkovsky leaves behind. More than this, this beautiful film struggles
against the backdrop of ‘there’s no such thing as sexual rapport’ in an
artful way. Having said ‘in an artful way’, I mean it has something to say
about Agamden’s lack of magic (as the stalker does). (r)(ps. I know you referred
to legacy in a different way) (r)
jampa — November 10, 2007 @ 10:02 am
Chris Sands: Just popped back in after a while, having watched Stalker
2 days ago for the first time in 20 years and there it is, you with it. (r)The
child as objet a? (r)Seen beside his The Sacrifice, isn’t this a reductionist
betrayal of Tarkovsky’s intent, which is to discuss the issue of legacy or
bequest? Or is there no difference between a loving father and the
assasinated one of the primal horde? Bollocks there isn’t! (r)Many parent/child
relationships are eroticized against the ‘law’ (or you guys’d be out of
business), many the eros is acknowledged and transmuted into loving fraternal
care. Leave aside the question of Gnosis (of which in Tarkovsky you blithely
elide) vs the psycho-analytic real which i’ve been yabberin on about ‘next
door’ (r)
Chris Sands — November 10, 2007 @ 4:26 am
Sol. saw the film some time ago, but have very little recollection of
it. (r)Could you refresh my memory? (r)
Sol — November 10, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Hi all, hope you are all well. (r)I’ve been off-line again, and will be,
mostly, until Jan 08. (r)Re children as objet a (CS), has anyone seen (r)the film ‘me,
you and everyone we know’? (r)a very interesting take on infantile (r)sexuality
and its intersection with (adult) Infantile (r)sexuality i think. (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
because it would be nice to figure it out quite easy by yourself (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 10:54 pm
why unfortunately lucky? (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
no im not unfortunately (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Chris Sands… Bravooo! you made it, I know it is difficult to understand
the steps of what to do - but once you get it it’s nice to have a place in
here where to post an image (r)
Chris Sands — November 9, 2007 @ 5:29 am
dear Violet, will take it ALL back, as have posted image in annexe
without help! (r)It’s an Araki photo, not the one I wanted, but good enough for
the moment. (r)Will do my best to develop the above notions (Agamben, Badiou)
later today. (r)
Chris Sands — November 9, 2007 @ 5:07 am
Who’s CSS? (r) Have posted something on annexe, which may need Perfume’s
assistance as before (with Agamben thumbnail). (r)The picture is an Araki photo.
There may be some delay, as only url is showing at the moment. (r)The point of
showing the new thumbnail has to do with Agamben’s recently published ‘Profanations’
and wanting to link the ‘profanations concept’ (r)to Badiou’s notion of the ‘artist’s
inexistence’. Agamben implies a necessary profaning of fashion and
pornography, which may be evident in some Araki images, but would want to
develop this (with reference to Badiou) when or if the image can be
available. (r)
alice — November 9, 2007 @ 4:12 am
I was expecting lucky to take on the explaining of what CSS is supposed
to do after violet… complicated (r)
violet — November 9, 2007 @ 2:16 am
so you are not a computer nerd, lucky? (r)
lucky — November 9, 2007 @ 1:00 am
me i have no idea about this stuff im a million miles away (r)
violet — November 8, 2007 @ 11:58 pm
I am trying that CSS, or maybe you lucky… put up an image in the forum,
are you saying my telling of the steps is not clear enough? (r)
lucky — November 8, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
re. the antigones hre plaster. there is absolutely no point in putting
notions in our heads about apparitions or cosmic visitation rights. hers that
is (r)
violet — November 6, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
CS = and that’s all that ever showed ; the address. I fixed it. Now go
to https://www.amp.uni-koeln.de/amp_aktuell/img/agamben.jpg (r)and see how dragging the image
with the arrow directly from the internet page into any other one it makes a
new page with an address, and this is the address you need to put in between
[img] and [img/]. i.e. (r)[img]https://www.amp.uni-koeln.de/amp_aktuell/img/agamben.jpg[img/] (r)try
it (r)
Chris Sands — November 6, 2007 @ 2:24 am
Oh good. When I first looked at this, only the address was showing. So,
in fact, I attached the address by saving the web page in the first place (as
dragging from one page to another not possible with safari). (r)
violet — November 5, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
with a Mac and Safari — there is your Agamben image in the forum - art
and Lacan symposia annex (r)
Chris
Sands — November 5, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
No, can’t do
it! (r)It could be that I’m using a mac and with ’safari’ you can only load one
page at a time. (r)Then, when I drag the image to the desktop, it alters the
address to the address of my desktop etc. (r)If I’m right, image loading might
only work at LacInk. (r)
violet — November 4, 2007 @ 11:54 pm
CS - of the art
@ lacan symposia annex, how is the uploading of the images doing? (r)I’ll write
the steps here so that anyone that wants to uploadr an image can do it, (r)the
address of the white dove in the first page is [img]https://www.antigonesplaster.com/Resources/pigforew1.jpeg[/img] (r)(you
drag the image of the dove directly into any other internet page, and as you
do this it takes the address with it (r)now you press “submit” (r)
Chris
Sands — November 4, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
But she can smile? (r)Not
necessarily like a field of golden daffodils? (r)
violet — November 4, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
but poppies he
suffers (r)
Chris
Sands — November 4, 2007 @ 8:16 am
’soagreeable’
is a find (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
violets
soagreeable poppies not (r)
violet — November 2, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
yes, chatting
is dope… (r)
Chris
Sands — November 2, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Lucky, in a
book called ‘Profanations’, Giorgio Agamben quotes Walter Benjamin and Mozart
to make the case that young children often feel sad because they can’t make
‘magic’ … (r)If this is true, children nevertheless often occupy the place of
the object a for many adults. We see the child elevated to the place of magic
in Tarkovsky’s ‘Stalker’. (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
just keep tal
king (r)
Chris
Sands — November 2, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
It’s sometimes
difficult to know what to say Lucky (r)
lucky — November 2, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
chatting is
dope don cha tink? n/a (r)
lucky — October 24, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
i dont know
what that is with computer games . i was going to say atisavoir first but
…then i put that instead it seemed like a better idean or meaner at least (r)
alice — October 24, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
lucky - is it
the save function you addressing, as in anti-save like in computer games…? (r)
lucky — October 22, 2007 @ 8:22 am
never… no its
just not a good idea according to anti save (r)
Sol
— October 22, 2007 @ 2:46 am
pity (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
this is all
really weird. i know im not the center of tension (r)
alice — October 21, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
forum closed?
forum is taken, which is a different thing… not closed (r)
lucky
— October 21, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
coming from
next door i want to say those numbers are trick or were approaching for some (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 10:08 am
since forum
closed back in time, i will say here tha gypsies told me in no way unmistakable
to get the hell outa ny when they looked at the palm of my hand at i thinlk
its washington square if ur lookin for reliable advice. of course i couldnt
understand wtf they were saying since we gidnt speak same tongue.but than god
cuz i got sick of yankers and then i found more everywhere i go (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 9:29 am
you know,the sole
reason. (r)
lucky — October 21, 2007 @ 9:16 am
well that better
not be all thats at stake, cause its not funny (r)
Chris Sands — October 21, 2007 @ 4:24 am
But this question seems to have to do with a suitable group or place for pieces of work and at times, thinking about a possible online cartel, we seem to have shifted towards ‘ideals’ - and away from the place of the object a.
Am looking at Reading Seminar X1 (Feldstein, Fink, Jaanus) and what interests me looking at this collection of seminars has to do with a moment in Lacan’s teaching when things change. Anne Dunand (in her ‘End of Analysis’ chapters) refers to the break with an IPA perception of the position of the analyst. She writes ‘If the analyst’s role (eg. Lacan’s) is to occupy the place of the object a, what has to fail is the maintainance of the analyst in the position of an ideal’. (p.245)
Later on (and particularly interesting to me), she writes ‘His strivings to contruct another basis for psychoanalytic praxis are linked to his desire to create a purely lay group, not only attracting people who are not medical doctors, as Freud had tried to do, but also introducing people who do not practice analysis as a profession, non-analysts.’
Then a last quote (p.246) ‘In analysis, the analyst is at first put in the place of the ideal, and the subject loves the analyst and him or herself, as the ideal ego relates to the ego-ideal. But the subject does not obtain satisfaction in analysis at that level. The analyst has to situate himself or herself and regulate transference in such a way that the greatest possible distance is maintained between the ideal and object a.’
lucky — October 20, 2007 @ 10:06 am
your video, like
ur mom died or something too soon (r)
Chris Sands — October 20, 2007 @ 8:59 am
Lucky, what stopped
too early? (r)
lucky — October 20, 2007 @ 7:18 am
the video stopped
too early thats really worse… (r)
Chris Sands — October 19, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
I think we
waited for Sarah to come back, now we seem to be picking on her. And there
seem to be problems whichever way we turn. With an online cartel, there is
the issue of privacy and numbers. But ‘going private’ leaves out the role of the
plus one.(r)Sarah, this site and others here are supported by LacInk and
expressions of retiscence probably carry a sense of gratitude. In your
absence, people here began to come up with their own cartel linked ideas.
Whatever happens, this is a good place to make some ‘introductions’. There is
time to do this. (r)
Sol
— October 19, 2007 @ 2:57 am
But for me, in my
experience of a cartel, (r)everyone works, it is not just a conversation, but each (r)has
their own particular questions that they work up (r)and put in to the cartel,
that links them into (r)a new kind of question (r)
alice — October 17, 2007 @ 5:02 am
CS - “… at present,
mostly just one person ‘walks the boards’ in the forum.” (r)it’s not only one
person in the forum, it’s the one person that wants to have the last word… (r)
Chris Sands — October 16,
2007 @ 2:14 am
You’re right but you’ve also put your finger on the problem. I think
Admin, at one point, suggests an online cartel is not quite the real thing.
Meeting up would be best, but as this isn’t possible, we’re left with sorry
semblances. Nevertheless I still haven’t forgotten Derrida’s earthquake or
the thought that for the FIRST TIME EVER, it’s possible to live and work
anywhere. This ‘anywhere’ must have some bearing on long lost Sarah’s cartel
looking at Freud and Lacan’s perception of time and SPACE. (r)
Sol — October 16, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Don’t they have eyes to listen? (r)and fingers to speak? (r)
Chris Sands — October 14,
2007 @ 7:15 am
yes of course, but then we’d need to know whether Perfume or Admin, and
surely we’d need to ask? (r)Are my ‘convolutions’ getting in the way of a little
revolution here? (r)I noticed what you were saying about drive and instinct
‘next door’ and have come across interesting chapters in ‘Reading Seminar X1 which address
an instinct bound to needs, with the drive having to do with exceptions (to
needs) and an eros and sublimations bound to our immortalities. (r)If an online
cartel looks at what Lacan calls the four fundamentals of analysis, including
the drive, then Sem XI or an aspect of it, might be a good starting place.
This seminar has never been far away from the life of the symposium. (r)
by sol — October 14, 2007 @ 2:52 am
isn’t it ‘admin’ or maybe ‘perfume’ in this empty chair? (r)
Chris Sands — October 10, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
(Twisting and turning) I turned demand (sometimes) encountered in the
context of therapy into the possibility of a ‘question’ or (a cartel(o))
topic here, but following direction suggested above, we might begin with
‘question-s’ and topic-s, but might also want to consider the ‘plus one’
position (????)
Chris Sands — October 10, 2007 @ 9:29 am
Many thanks Admin and very helpful, particularly emphasis on a product
which in fact amounts to four products when the cartel is made up of four
members. As well, noticed reference to the role of a ‘plus one’
admin — October 9, 2007 @ 2:20 am
CS, at the site of WAP World’s Association of Psychoanalysis, you can find
some writing about what a cartel is: https://www.wapol.org/en/index.html turn
on the English menu and copy and paste this address. That’s the way to get it
in English. If oyu go directly it will appear in Spanish
https://www.wapol.org/en/lasescuelas/lasescuelas.asp?elcartel.html
Chris Sands — October 8, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
dear Admin, we’ve been busy inviting Everyone to the party, but now you
suggest we’ve been partying for a while already. ‘We’ve’ come up with the
online cartel idea and a cartel CAN’T be inclusive. So we call it a cartello,
possibly recognising the limitations of a public site. This site began life
with a premise tucked in between the languages of contemporary art and Lacan
and the last few weeks suggest frustration or ‘growing pains’ or a change of
direction or ‘much ado about nothing’ … If a demand is sometimes visible in a
clinical setting, perhaps we might expect a question here. I think there was
one, but the question went away and attempts to come up with another seem
chaotic. If we go back to a question which had to do with a place for artists
and clinicians sharing ideas, assuming something could have worked here, then
the cartel idea is a useful afterthought. With contemporary art, surely
there’s already too much of the imaginary and with a group setting, there has
to be some way of limiting its effects. Art can do this perhaps when it’s
grounded in a project, a collaboration or a moment when disparate parts seem
to come together - through ‘the work of art’. If a questions remains, it
seems about a cartel. A cartel possibly takes something here further or it
takes something here in a different direction. If the symposium is somehow
set up to limit something by having a title, outside of it, a cartel could
limit the chaos of the imaginary. I think it takes a question.
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
b i dont know what to dobut…
admin — October 8, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
I already said what I would do, but let’s see what everyone else has to
say >>why not do your cartelo in here and if you want to show some images
go to the forum, CS already has an annexe
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
but aLL the public is allowed or how do u choose?
admin — October 8, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
this place is already quite exclusive, I am very careful to not let the
SPAM in… why not do your cartelo in here and if you want to show some images
go to the forum, CS already has an annexe
lucky — October 8, 2007 @ 9:22 am
thank god the terraine has shifted cuz i was getting sick a little of the
old topic/ nice open outside instead of a room of ones own which i cud never
bring myself to read altho its better than not ever having one i guess whwen
u need to get away. but thats noy the topic ill tell you if i get an idea id
like to put up here,but thanks butane cheekos
jampa — October 8, 2007 @ 6:05 am
Aren’t we lucky? You mean he’s multiple now? Now i’m in trouble! No! CS
has rescued me often violet, you all have, and not just me i’d wager. Can we
please not wonder for ever about formats for el cartello? Can i nominate
lucky to pick a topic, admin a venue? Wondered about acephallic too Chris,
whether a body speech or a body of posts without director
violet — October 8, 2007 @ 4:18 am
Yes Jampa, I’m here, missing you as every time you disappear without a
trace, or maybe it is that you become invisible, that you write with lemon -
lemon that becomes invisible unless you know how to light it up… aren’t we
lucky to have CS rescue you……
alice — October 8, 2007 @ 2:42 am
I didn’t mean to hurt anybody, I’m sorry CS, but you know how things can
get crazed all of a sudden… in any case case a cartelo is not a cartel so
it’s to us to invent th rules. The nice thing with the forum is thta we can
upload images in there, and maybe movies, let me find out about that… still
iI like it in here…
Chris Sands — October 7, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Now everybody’s ‘playing group therapy’ and how can it be an acephallic
messageboard either, as all that goes on next door? Here, we might look at
what can be the case between the languages of contemporary art and
psychoanalysis. After all, there is that thread with Lacanian Ink. Is there a
topic here which might also work in a public setting?? If the ‘cartello idea’
only works with a limited membership and it may do, we might ask LacInk if we
can site an online cartel in the forum …? Could it work? Could there be some
adjustments? The forum was an attempt, I think, to build in some ‘online
responsibilities’, when the whole thing was prone to sabotage. It seems, at
present, mostly just one person ‘walks the boards’ in the forum. If the forum
isn’t working, it makes the online cartel idea even more interesting, but it
would need to be focussed. In the first place I think we need a question and
questions are hard to find. If we can find a good one, we can then approach
Admin … ?????
lucky — October 7, 2007 @ 11:28 am
paid for?
jampa — October 7, 2007 @ 8:24 am
So, after all, my absent head is no bother. I always knew it somehow. Ah love,
be kind to me. Traffic direction: Sol, write invitations, Lucky, lick stamps.
Chris, you’re canapes. Violet, Radiate. Alice, wwonder. Surplus, adorn. Paul,
bear witness. I’ll pray without words as the master commends
alice — October 7, 2007 @ 7:24 am
yes Jampa!!!! please come back, this is an acephallic messageboard…….Sarah
is to blame for Lucky’s explosion, i guess, and Lucky is to blame for Sarah’s
disappearance because he shoots himself in the foot, and he shoots himself in
the obsessive.. I think this is what frightened Sarah, Lucky chased Sarah
away…… someone has to direct the traffic
jampa — October 6, 2007 @ 9:55 am
…himself in the foot… and sometimes me in the obsessive.
jampa — October 6, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Dears! Missed you! Found Chris’s e-mail while deleting 2-for-1 offers on…
never mind about that. Did notice that Sarah’s talk of cartels prompted Lucky
to explode, which perhaps, if i’ve read him right, has to do with an
insistence on Lacan in the clinic rather than (more) Lacanian discourse here
or anywhere else. Which in turn co-incided with Sarah’s disappearance. So,
Sarah, please come back, lucky regularly goes bang hoping for a telling
intervention. Personally i love him- i presume him to know- while he shoots
himself in the foot. Perhaps its a case of ‘build it, and she will come’. Its
a worthy proposal yes?; shouldn’t the cartello proceed here, publicly, on
time and space as if there were no empty chair, or presume it to be full?
Chris Sands — October 5, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Sol, Jampa once contacted me directly, but I got no reply when I tried the
email address a few weeks ago. He’s in Oz so, you should know him! I thought
your reference to Derrida interesting in the context of what a ‘cartello’ can
be about. The sense seems a long way away from JA Miller’s insistence on live
sessions - or another insistence on a set of potentially symbolic
co-ordinates at the start of sessions - which in turn seem a long way from
the late Lacan of Joycean symptoms or even the emergence of ‘contemporary
symptoms’. The cartello could be ambitious. We could provide a prize for the
most ambitious idea, which could be membership of the Lacanian world’s first
cartello.
Sol — October 5, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Yes where is Jampa? He (?) should come back too.. Did you call Jampa CS?
and the person who suggested I look at das ding for objet a? (thankyou) -
them too..was that Lucky? or Paul?
Sol — October 4, 2007 @ 8:21 am
actually, I live in the southern volcanic highlands.. usually cold, and
snow sometimes. but thanks for summoning me.. I would like to ask Sarah more
about her initial questions too..Sarah?
How do you mean “in” the objet a alice?
To me, we start each with some questions, worked until they have a
relationship to each other. Then, work on them, bringing together what we
have done periodically.
Is there a way to attach documents to messages on this board, so that it
doesn’t take too much space here, but remains here? Can those documents then
be annotated by others and remain circulating? Of course by documents, I
don’t say they aren’t visual, or a combination of visual and text
or..whatever.
But I am happy with other and any or many ways of approaching this
possibility.
Surplus — October 4, 2007 @ 8:14 am
CS - there is no rush……. no rush at all We want Sarah, and we want Jampa,
right?
Chris Sands — October 4, 2007 @ 2:51 am
Alice, we should move on, but I don’t think we should rush passed Sarah’s
time and space in her absence … at least, not just yet. We summoned Sol from
the crusty outback, we might try doing the same with Sarah. Give Sarah a
shout Alice before she turns into our very own lost object!
alice — October 4, 2007 @ 1:14 am
1) we call it cartello…….
2) we investigate in the objet a
2) we do it in here?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
- flung, fling - farther, further -
I came upon this - Derrida speaking at/of the Freud archives - re
private/public and the virtual..I hope not too lengthy for here:
“One can dream or speculate about the earthquakes which would have made the landscape of the psychoanalytic archive unrecognizable for the past century if, to limit myself to these indications, Freud, his contemporaries, collaborators and immediate disciples, instead of writing thousands of letters by hand, had had access to……E-mail…..
As I am not able to do this, on account of the ever archaic organization of our colloquia, of the time and space at our disposal, I will limit myself to a remark: this archival earthquake would not have limited itself to the secondary recording, to the conservation of the history of psychoanalysis; it would have transformed this history from top to bottom and in the most initial inside of its production, in its very events….
… the indicative value of E mail is privileged in my opinion for a more
important and obvious reason: because electronic mail today, .. is on the way
to transfroming the entire public and private space of humanity, and first of
all the limit between the private, the secret, and the public or phenomenal”
from Jacques Derrida Mal d’Archive Une Impression Freudienne Paris: Galilee
1995
Chris Sands — October 2, 2007 @ 4:27 am
In recognition of the need for scraps and a ‘cartello’, we could call ourselves
‘the cartello of the far flung’. Are we, I wonder, mostly all perservering in
far flung places?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 2:04 am
Sarah’s idea had the word repetition didn’t it? yes, the plus one, the one
in the empty chair?
Cartello is good!
I read a a paper the other night, it was late, and all that I remember was of
a girl, hiding under a table where the women were kneading bread; the little
piece of leaven remainder, repeatedly left in the bowl, and the girl stealing
some..
admin — October 2, 2007 @ 5:11 am
CS –we’ve had cartels online, of 5 people, the oine that lasted longer was
in Spanish… they work for a while but it’s not the same as when the five
people meet periodically, so that you see their faces… I think we could try
discussing a topic in here. Alice’s subject is quite accurate since we have
the Encounter in April…
Chris Sands — October 2, 2007 @ 2:46 am
I thought Sarah’s idea interesting because it caused a stir. With or
without Sarah we could revisit a stirring topic and say what we think it was.
Was it time and space with Freud and Lacan? Now I’m also wondering about your
idea Alice, wondering whether your suggestion gives body to the cause of our
desire. There’s a suggestion that the play that Freud calls psychoanalysis
involves a certain timelessness and if this is the case, we might assume
Sarah’s dreaming and needs her sleep having come up with a smashing idea.
Lucky used the word ‘rerun’ when she wasn’t sure about something and I still
think we should rerun the idea of an online cartel, before clarifying who’s
in it, where it could be and what the topic is.
Dear Admin or Perfume, is there some experience of online cartels at LacInk?
Have they worked before or have they worked elsewhere?
alice — October 2, 2007 @ 1:22 am
and where is Sarah, proposing the cartel, with the fresh ideas CS talks
about… now what?
alice — October 2, 2007 @ 1:24 am
good question Sol! I was only telling of the way they do things at L’_cole
de la Cause, and it’s been this way since Lacan… the cartels are tied to the
school, there’s even a small book with the different names , in groups of 5
or 6 - one is the plus-one…. so you know who are the people that have beeen
investigating one topic or the othe oin their own…
But we can do things the way we want… and instead of calling it cartel we can
call it a cartello….The topic for the next Encounter - in Buenios Aires ,
April 2007 is “objet a in the clinical structure” there probably be
information around… so this would my suggestion, to talk about “objet a in
the clinical structure” and do we want to do it here, in this forum, another
suggestion would be to use a forum where we can put up images, or maybe use
both…
lucky — October 2, 2007 @ 1:24 am
i dont know; is it cause we live in a privatized worl with prizes!?
Sol — October 2, 2007 @ 12:28 am
why does it need to be private?
lucky — October 1, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
purple soft cloth with a brain wrapped up inside
Chris Sands — October 1, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
What does my thinking cap look like Lucky?
lucky — October 1, 2007 @ 11:07 am
good idea chris now you have your drinking cap on
Chris Sands — October 1, 2007 @ 7:28 am
Alice, I think you mention there having been one (in Spanish) some time
ago, linked to online LacInk, but I think it would need to be set up
separately, rather than be part of a public forum. We might ask Sarah, then
Perfume what they think … ?
alice — October 1, 2007 @ 1:45 am
what is a cartel? Much as I know it is a private group of 5 or 6 people
that together study a subject… how then can you imagine we would do this in a
public forum?
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
i think i get it noe da da
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
If a founding act can be a suggestion then can we assume making a start?
Sol — September 20, 2007 @ 11:49 am
the founding act was Sarah’suggestion
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I’m assuming a cartel starts with membership, with a topic and with
meetings, and if not meetings a way of communicating …
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 5:52 am
i dont understand the last point…
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
i was just gonna say ‘please please come gack”
violet — September 29, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
lucky got all excited excited with the cartel idea…..
alice — September 29, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
what’s the matter with you lucky?
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
GET HER OUT OF HERE ‘ im warning you sweetley ley abogado a a da da da d a
lucky — September 29, 2007 @ 5:25 am
yes
alice — September 29, 2007 @ < 2:22 am
lucky - in your famous phrase… does M: stand for Mother?
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 4:05 am
why they kep sending me back here want me to make essage ok . thats sad
are cats similar to psychotics?is that what your saying. of course they have
much more sense.
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 11:18 am
i dont have any friends
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
ive got something priceless for the cartelm i think; ‘ your father has
nothing to do with me, my grandfather; but my father has more to do with you
( the mother) than me . M: “Yes because he was MY Hussband!!!!!!!!!!!”
lucky — September 27, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Ratfink they call me, myself and i I do
alice — September 26, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
indeed… cats do better than psychotics
lucky — September 26, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
no/ its one of the best things ive heard in my whole life Sol!
lucky — September 26, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
well this sounds like a cali cartel calla that is
Sol — September 26, 2007 @ 1:24 am
it’s a joke about boundaries for me, and cats being to do with death - (9
lives) and escaping laws…(always land on their feet) I’m sorry not to explain
it, I thought it was a famous joke.
lucky — September 24, 2007 @ 10:55 am
this sounds highly suspicious volks better rerun
Chris Sands — September 22, 2007 @ 5:06 am
There’s time to think about a ‘cartel’, how it might work, who might be in
it etc. but thinking about possible material too is interesting. Alain
Badiou’s work in recent years and his references to contemporary art seem
relevant to the topic, but especially his ‘Handbook of Inaesthetics’ (with
its interpretation of the work of James Joyce’s secretary). If we start
considering time, it would hard to ignore film. Alexander Sukorov’s might be
worth a look at. ‘Father and Son’ is an important film, I think, so too the
recently released, but earlier, ‘Mother and Son’. Sukorrov’s subjectivity is
disarming at first, but as we are led in somehow (literally with ‘Russian
Ark’), a timelessness subverts the background noise of narratives and in a
way these films reinvent the shock of (discovering) psychoanalysis.
Sol — September 22, 2007 @ 12:49 am
I am very interested in temporality. I have tracked many of Freud’s ideas
about time (and space) over the last few years. I would be interested to
focus upon, and work on, and discuss, particular ideas and papers that people
propose. Lacan’s, sure, and perhaps others?
A moment of Freud (1920) on time: In Beyond the pleasure principle, Freud
reconsiders and refines his formulation of the perceptual system that he has
constructed in the Interpretation of Dreams. He proposes that the sense
organs take up limited information from the plethora of external stimuli, acting
as a protective shield. In this taking up, and shielding, a rhythm is
implicit. (I think of the blind spot -in the eye - and the cat’s eye joke..)
From this, Freud writes that a discussion of Kant's theory of a priori
knowledge, specifically, the proposition that time and space are 'necessary
forms of thought', is timely. Biological/perceptual rhythms might structure
time (Aristotle?).
Relevant to us here perhaps, he writes that Psychoanalysis is in the position
to embark on this discussion due to the discovery that unconscious thought is
timeless: atemporal, unaffected by time, and unable to have the idea of time
applied to it. Time is an exclusively conscious phenomenon, which derives
from the perceptual system Freud argues at this time - though later, he makes
other propositions.. Sol.
alice — September 22, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
I even missed the cat’s slits……….. if it wasn’t Sol to say it I would be
very suspicious about slits in cat’s eyes exactly… on top of the eyes?
Sol — September 22, 2007 @ 2:28 am
isn’t it funny that cats have slits in their skin exactly on top of where
the eyes are.. (see the joke book by Freud)
lucky — September 22, 2007 @ 2:14 am
somehow i missed the cats eye joke, can someone tell it?
Chris Sands — September 20, 2007 @ 10:41 am
Alice, posted email to Jampa, but don’t know if the email address is still
good. Don’t have Sol’s address, but have just put something on messageboard.
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 9:19 am
thats very rude or irresponsible of them for not partaking in whatever
this thing is. A study group on a specimen or what?
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 6:15 am
should say speak for yourself wrong place
lucky — September 20, 2007 @ 6:05 am
no they are sun bayhing
alice — September 20, 2007 @ 5:14 am
CS - any luck with finding jampa and Sol?
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
Will email Jampa who once sent me something, but would suggest putting a
message on messageboard next door for Sol to look at symposium.
alice — September 18, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Chris - do you have a way of getting hold of “sol” and getting hold of
“jampa”……? they could be interested in sarah’s project, I think
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
No i have not read the text.
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Did you see the JA Miller text ‘Introduction to the Erotics of Time’ in
LacInk 24/25 ?
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 10:12 am
indeed Chris i posted my question in a field where the question of art is
perhaps central, but unfortunately the question of art may be slightly
outside the way i would explore repetition and temporality, for now - just
for now.
Chris Sands — September 18, 2007 @ 9:47 am
re. ‘i would be pleased to hear any ideas about other texts that would
help tie such a cartel together’
Listening to this is so refreshing but questions like this can surely be more
than text based, particularly if the question of art is included(?) With
contemporary art, we see something flat (’two dimensional’) giving way to
preoccupations which involve durations (installations, video). and when a
social dimension is built into the work (this way), we also seem to be posing
a question, making a demand. At the time of Seminar X1, showing work possibly
forced a ‘twosome’ towards the symbolic, but a current concern for the
temporal might be ‘laying down’ a politics of art. Could a cartel include the
question of art?
Sarah — September 18, 2007 @ 8:51 am
alice, i have some experience yes, but i have never taken a topic out of
lacan and chosen texts, normally i would just take on a particular seminar. i
am aware of the seminars in which repetition and temporality are worked on,
but i thought it messy to use isolated chunks of seminars to explore this
topic, no?
alice — September 18, 2007 @ 12:28 am
Lacan brings in repetition as one of the Four Fundamental Concepts in
Seminar XI. On temporality he expands with respect to the unconscious - there
is no time in the UCS… And we have Freud's famous title Analysis Terminable
and Interminable…. Alain Badiou adresses it in his The Formulas of
l'_tourdit…. Sarah , do you have a previous experience with cartels?
Sarah — September 17, 2007 @ 11:47 am
It is not a particular seminar i want to look at for a cartel. I want to
examine repetition and temporality as a topic and focus on specific texts
across the earlier and later Lacan for this topic. However, choosing texts is
not easy. The Purloined letter, The instance of the letter, & Logical
time and the assertion of anticipated certainty are three older texts that
come to mind, and perhaps it would be interesting to combine these with some
later texts. i would be pleased to hear any ideas about other texts that
would help tie such a cartel together.
Chris Sands — September 17, 2007 @ 4:24 am
I would be delighted!
alice — September 16, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Sarah - I know some years ago there was a cartel in this site, but I am
afraid it was in Spanish… sounds like such a good idea to do one in English.
I am sure CS - according with what he says in the last messages - would be
delighted. We need an S1
alice — September 16, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
CS - I don’t completly recall what I wrote in the deleted message… but I
recalll the train of my thoughts going from re-reading gal in message 82
about the “self being the One,” thinking there actually is the “oneself”,
0ne-self… and then going into read about “the one to lay down the gaze” and
this one is not the artist but the viewer… what I know about laying down of
the gaze is that it is in direct relation with the elucubration coming up -
with ” I see”, which means I stopped looking…
Sarah — September 16, 2007 @ 10:09 am
Does anyone know of an online cartel? i can only find them in spanish,
looking for an english speaking one
Chris Sands — September 16, 2007 @ 4:55 am
dear Admin, in cleaning up duplicated messages, we might have lost Alice’s
last message
Chris Sands — September 15, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
But, reference to a ’self analysis’ was reference to going beyond what, I
think, Freud meant by self analysis. But in Bruce Fink’s (new) ‘Fundamentals
of Psychoanalytic Technique’, there’s also reference to processes
supplementing an analysis (p.57) which he calls ’self analysis’. Later on, he
refers to self analysis always falling short of analysis ((’True self
analysis is impossible, otherwise there would be no (neurotic) illness-
Freud)), but I was talking personally, referring to geographical predicaments
(which Bruce Fink addresses, ‘phone sessions’) and doing my best to talk from
the place of an artist. When an artist puts work somehow ‘in the public
domain’, he or she not only turns into the viewer, but encounters a world
which is cruel-restrained-indifferent. The other day, I came across something
Alain Badiou said about love, ones, twos and multiplicities. I’ve forgotten
the line, but there was poetry in it! But something about love as two
striving towards a multiplicity suggests Joyce rather than Freud (by way of
there’s no such thing as sexual rapport) - and this epiphany forecloses the
position of the artist. When you think about it, the artist is very trusting
or very stupid - putting work in the public domain. If the public domain
implies the symbolic, what is an artist ‘demanding’ from ‘the art world’? By
installing ‘demand’ when work is shown, does the work of art reinvent the
subject of the unconscious in a world of retail therapy and imperatives to
enjoy?
gal — September 14, 2007 @ 11:58 am
Self would be the One, or the very act of jouissance locking you up again.
Jouissance is of the One. To get out of that cage Lacan invented the Other.
which can be an other, like me, yet is more than an other - my neighbour,
etc. In any case the one to lay down the gaze, as I understand it, is not the
artist but the viewer - the spectator.
Chris Sands — September 9, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
It seems to me that with Seminar X1, Lacan compels the artist to look at
what happens when the work is shown - or we might deduce, the work of art
includes the process of ‘laying down the gaze’. There is no imperative here
obviously, and Alain Badiou, for one, points to work which rubs up against an
‘inexistence’, when each new piece is measured against the state and art, if
not the state of art. But, as artists, if we must show something of ourselves
from time to time - there is perhaps something to show close up to therapy
and psychoanalysis. I have a question in mind and I’d like some help drawing
it out. I make two assumptions and will have to go back to them. One is
dreamt out of Seminar X1 and the other assumes there may be a general
interest in psychoanalysis, in parts of the art world. I may be dreaming on
both accounts, but if the work of art has something to do with showing work,
perhaps from time to time, and contemporary art’s not fooled by the embers of
a surrealism - can the work of art be more than a ’self analysis’?? When the
work is shown, can the work be close to the experience of an analysis? Who
will know? Will the analyst doubt it? Will the artist who’s been through an
analysis know? I seem to have come across a suggestion somewhere that
analyst, Marie-Helene Brousse is looking at ‘this question’ from the
perspective of the analyst, but know of nothing published.
Terry1 — August 18, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
Just a little note to thankyou for your work Chris in hosting this. Your
efforts are appreciated.
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
Perhaps a little prompted by the passing of Bergman, have pasted parts of a text below (parts 7 and 1),
which may somehow become a 'basis' for two short films. In this instance, the
text is a first cut, but it's also part of a longer text. Putting it on view
in this way, effects an ongoing (video) process. The internet provides an opportunity
hinted at in Seminar X1 - where 'laying down the gaze' is part of the work of
art. The text and one of the films may be called 'THE MORNING AFTER
BLOOMSDAY'. The key term above is 'basis'. Showing ongoing work may lead to a
response, but video somehow seems a social process and the product carries a
writing.
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
7. Eva stood on the bed cracking melons with her foot and Dick lay there
looking at the sky. Above the pulse in the room, there's an angst. A little
angst! Eva asks 'How long's the morning after Bloomsday?' But Dick's staring
at walls.
She continues 'You can see how long it takes watching TV in a hotel room in
France, but there's no conversation.' 'The words go by unnoticed.' He's
looking at six women in Breton dress; all looking the other way and it's
almost too hot to wear anything.
With a story 'nothing's sacred'. On a boat earlier, Dick uses the term
'alienation' in his notebook, but can't see how alienation is linked to
'sublimation' and how to make sense of it later that day. Eva would tell him
he uses 'lazy words' and should by using any one of them 'once in a blue
moon' Dick's a mess sticking to bed covers. As the light dims, he imagines
losing his jacket, the one on the back of the chair - and, looks up to Breton
women wearing it and little else.
When he told his story there was an obvious objection here. How could a group
of women be wearing one jacket and little else? Given the chance he'd say
'They were all looking away from the camera, taking turns to try on his
jacket and of course, it's midsummer.'
8. Can a mini novel waiver between restlessness with icons, Joyce and
Beckett, and a concern for alienation, which is not entirely a psychoanalytic
concept? There are further notes.
At the risk of turning into one of his heroes for the morning, Dick
approaches someone who looks like Monsieur B. We can assume he's no longer in
a hotel room. Monsieur B asks 'Would you talk to me under normal
circumstances?'
Eva is almost lost for words, but Dick censures her for 'taking things too
literally.' 'A gap opens up between art and therapy when you put them
together, but I imagine somehow something working in different ways - without
being too delusional.' She says 'When you see them in different ways, I
suppose there's something odd, but you have to speak first to this Monsieur
B. for the sake of script and video.'
But to make things worse, Dick thinks back to when daring Dick first
discovered how to be daring.
He describes a vegetarian restaurant in Chalk Farm, his first wife and an
evening with a woman his wife met modelling at St Martin's school of art. The
woman’s a little younger and was off to Vancouver. He remembers she talked
mainly to his wife.
Eva says 'There may be a little anxiety here or tension.' He says 'Of course
a little tension.' 'But you don't remember her name which is one source of
anxiety and worse still, if you do remember her name you may be moving in the
direction of that first wife.'
He does look a little anxious. 'I can pick it all up I suppose, the
restaurant, Chalk Farm and reference to Beckett, but who cares. Artists avoid
nostalgia researching their material.' She says 'And artists should live on
their own and decide when there's enough material to keep them going!'
He was shy in Chalk Farm and now shy again moving around another beautiful
woman, who might - also - turn a parting gesture into the Pacific with brown
rice and tahini. 'With Sylvia Plath's lines still fresh on every corner,
there'd be more to regret later on.'
Eva knew the story, but wasn't sure Dick would get anywhere bringing Joyce
and Beckett into things. Dick concluded 'For years afterwards, he told the
story of a woman who turned around and spoke to anyone in the restaurant -
and then went off to Vancouver.' She became an icon, like Beckett and Joyce.
An icon for impressionable young people, but especially Dick.
violet — July 21, 2007 @ 12:44 am
Lacan’s Nightingale” is not in Perfume’s blog, it is in Lacan.dot.com
blog: https://www.lacan.com/blog/index.html<
Perfume’s blog is at : https://www.lacan.com/perfume/blog/
Chris Sands — July 22, 2007 @ 5:15 am
(J) - Lacan’s insistence on the effects of language and speech perhaps in
some way predicts the emergence of so called conceptual art in the early
1970’s and now some analysts look to contemporary arts exemplary ‘lalangue’.
JA Miller has much to say about the effects of language and I was ’surprised’
over the weekend by a description in ‘Lacan’s Nightgale’ (see Perfume’s blog)
of the subject or subjectivity as a moment when an individual falters,
confronted by language’s tendency to generalise, categorise, classify … Art
is naiive if Lacan’s ‘lalangue’ is new.
jampa — July 22, 2007 @ 2:42 am
A psychoanalytically savvy art, such as yours Chris, has it pre-digested
anticipated ‘interventions’, in the clinical sense, or does it invite them,
given the millieu to which its offered? To what extent, i’m wondering, does
art invite analysis, to what extent does an analyst’s art ‘axiomatize’
analysis? given that art, to some extent, is always naiive of of its
criticism. Or is it? Perhaps all informed art is more naiive than it thinks?!
Chris Sands — July 22, 2007 @ 7:11 am
The Chapman brother’s work can be found on the net and Gerard Wajcman’s
’ship of glass’ photo is on Josefina’s blog
Sol — July 22, 2007 @ 7:01 am
Who are The Chapmans? and this glass house? can I view it somewhere?
Chris Sands — July 21, 2007 @ 11:07 am
I would like to understand a little bit more what you say, Jampa. What is
meant by intervention in this case? We might say ‘the act of psychoanalysis’
or the act of putting in a show, let’s say. Then, what does Joyce forbid?
Does the ‘jouissance’ of Joyce the sinthome forbid anything? Unless the sin
is forbidding an end to writing by taking it too far … in which case there’s
no time for intevention (?)
jampa — July 19, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Art informed by psycho-analysis
does it embody anticipated ‘interventions’? -without inhibiting
interpretation- unlike Joyce, forbidding both does the Ship of Glass,
assimilating its necessary iceberg sail instead like a symptom, in its
fragility and lack, towards the Siren’s rocks? Unlike the Crystal Palace of
self-consciousness, it seems vulnerable, breakable, not pre-deconstructed
Just wonderin
Chris Sands — July 9, 2007 @ 4:20 am
(Paul) Going back to the Chapmans, if I can, could we say that something
lies in wait for latter day conceptual art when it tries to make sense of the
axiom ‘the unconscious is structured like a language’? This sense may be tied
to daydreaming the morning after Bloomsday … an atrocious morning! What can
be atrocious post Goya and Chapmans, may look like too much daydreaming and a
reluctance to base the work of contemporary art on scraps of paper or online
blogs sometimes, seen as an intimacy through Gerard Wajcman’s window … ? A
symposia project, as before, supposes One to anOther, but not seamlessly …?
Chris Sands — June 29, 2007 @ 2:12 am
My question has to do with the function of art for the artist, following
psychoanalysis. If the important part of becoming an analyst is the future
analyst’s own analysis, can the function of art for the artist come close to
this or can it only be like a self analysis? Let’s say, a practice concerned
with contemporary art let’s go of the garret and a shifting from the real
towards a closely observed subjectivity or a tenuous one characterises the
mood of the artist, bound to the inexistence that Badiou describes. And if
this work of art or psychoanalysis and a new subjectivity takes such a long
time, how does a new alliance take shape? Close up to Badiou’s ‘inexistence’,
lurks an exhaustion … perhaps?
lucky —
June 28, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
Rupert/ unbelievable the questionmark doesn’t work!
paul — June 21, 2007 @ 11:04 am
yes CS, your Badiou’s phrase on every life guaranteeing for itself the
enjoyment of atrocity is just so good to address the work of the Chapman’s.
Chris Sands — June 2, 2007 @ 2:58 am
In a text dated 5 may 99, Alain Badiou makes the case for Freud basing a
century defining discovery on no sexual rapport and the text perhaps
anticipates Gerard Wajcman’s Desumblimation. It seems to have some bearing I
think on mention of the work of the Chapman brothers. The paragraph comes
from ‘The Century’ (Polity Press 07) p. 78:
‘By 1918, as we can see, Freud had already clearly identified a ploy that has
been operative ever since, which consists in referencing the articulation of
desire and its object back to a meaning that is pre-constituted in culture,
mythology, or religion. The endevouring aim of this ploy is to reintroduce
meaning into the place of, and instead of, truth, thereby injecting ‘the
cultural’ into libido. This is a hermeneutic ploy, and Freud immediately saw
it as an insidious negation of his discovery. Briefly, it was necessary to
come back to bare sex and its radical absence of meaning.’
Then later (p.79) Badiou writes: ‘Ever since the days of the Roman Empire, we
know that enjoyment is what every life tries to guarantee for itself, when it
takes the place of the imperative, what one inevitably ends up enjoying is
atrocity.’
With this last sentence, I’m still thinking of the Chapmans, but also of
Rupert’s comment re. ‘unknotted belief’ on the messageboard.
violet — June 2, 2007 @ 2:14 am
In any case the Chapman’s do a lot with boys - less unreal … in their work
with soldiers at war the bodies get to amount but you can see these are dead
bodies - like at war - or maybe wounded… it happens at war
paul — May 29, 2007 @ 1:19 am
Does Chapman do the same with boys?
gal — May 28, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
with the Chapman’s the empty belongs in the image - not being the thing
itself - but still more subtil is the fact that it relates to the impossible
- an image of dreams, fantasy.. perhaps of Lacan’s Woman and her miss
relative to a universal profile
violet — May 27, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
in the case of Warhol - with the Campbel soup, the box of Brillo - or
Gober with the cat litter - the art is about that, about you not being
supposed to open the can, the box, and consume its contents although it says
there that you do so… right? but can we trace the same throughout, for
example, the Chapman’s?
alice — May 25, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
that explains it - that is, the object is already being emptied with the
aritst thinking the act that may confirm the actual fact. Warhol, Robert
Gober… the one with the Campbel soup, the box of Brillo, Gober with the cat
litter…?
Chris Sands — May 25, 2007 @ 2:10 am
ps.
With art perhaps, we sometimes begin with the discrepancies of a latterday
‘readymade’, an object which is already an interpretation - in the sense that
JAM’s implies.
Chris Sands — May 25, 2007 @ 2:02 am
Alice, sorry if this is the wrong place … on the messageboard you bring
together signifier, object, lack and creativity (44) and first, I thought of
Alain Badiou’s references to Sam Beckett. Then found myself looking again at
JA Miller’s INTERPRETATION IN REVERSE, which is available online.
Have pasted a little passage from the start of this text. With a little help
from JAM, linking two practices (and following GW’s DESUBLIMATION) my
question would be, does the work of art and the work of psychoanalysis
reitterate a ‘discrepancy’? A discrepancy with signifier and object.
JAM writes: ‘Who does not know that the unconscious stands then entirely in
the discrepancy which is repeated between what I want to say and what I do
say - as if the signifier was deflecting the programmed trajectory of the
signified, and this is what gives ground to interpretation - as if the
signifier was interpreting, in its own fashion, what I want to say. It is in
this discrepancy that Freud situated what he called the 'unconscious' - as if
for this wanting-to-say of mine, which is my 'intention of signification',
another wanting-to-say was substituted, which would be that of the signifier
itself and which Lacan designated as 'the desire of the Other'.’
alice — May 25, 2007 @ 12:29 am
violet - there’s also bad weather at the other end
violet — May 19, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
are you telling us of Jersey islands that they stand for misty rain and
pizza?
Chris Sands — May 15, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
(below, a short excerpt from an ongoing text. It follows a still taken in
Rennes and comes before another taken of the German navy arriving in St Malo!
Will update website referred to above shortly)
FOUR
'DRESS CIRCLE DREAM'
1.
Why a 'dress circle', why bad skin?
Is what's left - 'left in tatters'?
2.
Sitting in the train, sitting in the station, after so many cues, there was
nowhere to prop up the video camera. I'd find places in Rennes, but not later
in St Malo when I just wanted to go home.
Thinking ahead, I'd use both cameras first thing in the morning in Jersey,
on the boat and outside the station. Torn between frustration and
'predilection', the first leg of my small journey is already written up in a
text called 'ALWAYS STORIES'.
Written up 'in a fashion'?
I might have said something when it was time to talk in Rennes, but the
cameras were tucked away with my 'survival pack', when I left the railway
station looking for some composure with three hours to spare.
The rest is neither here or there.
There's something to think about; the look of a passer-by, a bridge for
next time, filming in public places in a foreign country. And when the
homecoming's postponed due to bad weather, the session seems extended.
I want to write first notes sitting in the waiting room at the Gare
Maritime du Naye, when the German navy turn up. A bird sings above me on the
ramparts while I video a statue pointing out to sea and there's banging and crashing
during the night. I return to misty rain and pizza.
Chris Sands — May 1, 2007 @ 2:27 am
(Lucky) this was reflecting on something Badiou says and with contemporary
art, there’s a lot of interest in work which is site specific or work that
addresses the public domain. Outside of gallery or museum spaces, the work
will come up against obvious limitations, but many artists for a long time
have suggested these limits are also the case in the art world. This has led
to collaborations with curators and others who take some responsibility for
what may or may not be the case (with the work of art). When Badiou implies
the work should be more than site specific, I think he addresses the
potential of a subjectivity which has some bearing on the tricky notion of
art and function.
lucky — April 20, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
What kind of work? Are you leaving us to earn your marks in the land of
meditions
jampa — April 20, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Thank-you so much Sol… violet, Chris. I have so much work to do i’m
afraid! I think its no longer enough to contribute just… provocations
Chris Sands — April 20, 2007 @ 4:06 am
Perhaps Jampa’s hinting at ‘new master signifiers’?
What I’m wondering about, possibly prompted by the labyrinthine side to these
sites now, has to do with ‘place’. Musing, I think, on something Malarme
wrote, Alain Badiou suggests contemporary art must somehow go beyond a
specific location (site). Living somewhere off the beaten track, I’m very
conscious of what seems to limit work. What can be shown in a particular
gallery, in a particular location etc. I think, there is nowhere, where I
live, that somehow looks after an ‘artist’s jouissance’ and perhaps there are
moments in contemporary art where an artist seemingly makes sense of a
possibility. The idea that a film like ‘Entracte’ can be equated with the
discourse of the hysteric came as a startling revelation for me (here) a few
days ago. But as far as the symposia goes, there was always the idea that it
could (also) be a place for the work of art.
Perhaps, a ’symposia show’ could be somewhere else?
violet — April 29, 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Jampa — you say masters exist, whether slaves do or not… hmmm , it doesn’t
seems to match the hysteric, supposed to “make” a master to then master him -
like “la ma_tresse du ma_tre and so?
Sol — April 28, 2007 @ 4:22 am
Paul has traditionally been known as performing an overtly authorititive
exegesis and for some myopia re his Master, (the newer work on Paulian time I
don’t know), and there is some revision of the traditional position vis a vis
Paul. Your message could be read as the interaction effects of both these
readings jampa, but in stating that there are no slaves, perhaps eclipses
Paul altogether. Nothing is discredited.
jampa — April 28, 2007 @ 1:21 am
Maybe brother N, Nietzche, one assumes, had no (contemporary) interlocutor
but nor did he correspond with dedicated cryptoligists! The analyst is
clearly not autistic but why is he or she determined to be inscrutable? Of
course there are clinical rationale, but they have, i believe, little
application here. Unless this is an analyst’s coterie dedicated to the
exclusion of… If i did describe Paulinian love, how is it discredited? And i
demand a reply, not a poem or cryptogram
Sol — April 27, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Cs 70 but then it would surely be an arrow in the ego, or belief in the
ego
it depends I guess on the effect of the arrow, I seem to remember
the effect was an ecstatic - other jouissance - in a way there has been no
pause as this is so overwhelming
The symbolic pause might rather have the effect of recognition,
something has been said between people who know that they don’t know
each other..but still speak whereas this other arrow presumes knowledge
Lucky 88 Maybe brother N had the right idea there’s always writing
admin — April 27, 2007 @ 2:17 am
“perhaps this deserves to be the flagship page and its address should read
'art and Lacan, messageboard and forum”
inspired by this idea I will make symposia bring us in here, and then we
choose to go to the forum - or to the mwssageboard
and let me know how you like it
Chris Sands — April 26, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
In the past few days, I’ve wondered about the business of a demand
addressed to a subject-supposed-to-know, but have kept in mind a curious
statement that Eric Laurent makes in the document, ‘Guiding Principles For
Any Psychoanalytic Act’ (online,see main page). He writes ‘an analyst is not
autistic’. So, I thought, if there’s a meeting between the two notions, it
has to do with frustration of a demand. The therapist frustrates the demand
without being autistic.
But with the late Lacan of the sinthome and few assumptions about a subject,
let alone a subject-supposed-to-know, I wonder what to make of Eric Laurent’s
sentence. I live in a small, out of the way place, and am often frustrated by
what seems like a pervasive ‘autism’. As an artist, I’ve wanted to look at
what can be done to set up a foundation for contemporary art and as a
therapist, I’ve wanted to work with or alongside the local health service,
but more than often there is little or no response to iniatives or suggested
collaboration. I’m aware that the work doesn’t stop here or necessarily even
start here, but often wonder what to make of a silence.
Familiar territory perhaps for some artists, but if writers like JA Miller
come close to the mark and late capitalism borrows the discourse of the
analyst, then can Lacan’s response to students at Vincennes (’you will have
your masters’) be seen as a portent of refreshed psychoanalysis, at a time of
diminished subjectivity?
I wanted to post this on the new ‘forum’, but there seem to be technical
problems.
lucky — April 26, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Maybe FN did’nt go mad so much as there was nothing better for him to do
but suffer in his tiny world and watch those around him
lucky — April 26, 2007 @ 9:44 am
Is that Paulinian Love?
jampa — April 26, 2007 @ 8:01 am
Perhaps this deserves to be the flagship page and its address should read
‘art and Lacan, messageboard and forum’?
Anyway, the fifth discourse is maybe prompted by Chris’s (Badiou’s) ‘new
master signifiers’, the issue of mastery, the ’subject-supposed-to-know’,
other, yet immanent to the analysand,… contrasted with the bald fact that
masters exist, whether slaves do or not, and they deserve our mature
reverence. The funny thing about the master signifier is that it signifies nothing
and there’s only desire and loving- of oneself and everything else as the
dance of the empty master
Chris Sands — April 25, 2007 @ 2:54 am
At first sight, it seems finding a way around the options could be
difficult, especially for newcomers. There’s no mention of art and Lacan on
‘forum’ or ’site map’ and site map includes lots of symposia entities which
now only exist as archive. I don’t know that there was a problem with the
messageboard other than newcomers may have a resistance to divulging personal
details and wont know a recent history. I suppose one term ’symposia’ ‘forum’
ect could lead into interactive options, but once in there might be a small
description of what the sites are and a little history.
admin — April 24, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
sorry everybody for disrupting the talk with practical problems
but it happens to be that some messages got archived and some got lost with
the archiving endeavor
so the situation now is that we have a messageboard and a symposia
and we’ve put forth a third entity called FORUM - as to give it a try
so please let us know of your preferences and suggestions in reference to
this matter
violet — April 24, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
jampa, and why do we want a 5th discourse,
I think the unversity discourse is already contemplating the disciple
explain more
jampa — April 24, 2007 @ 6:47 am
should have read barred s desire for S2 over
a evacuated ..result… S1
In a loop, clockwise
Dicciple’s discourse
jampa — April 24, 2007 @ 6:22 am
Just wondering, still thick as a brick, if there’s not a fifth scheme
> barred S ..//..> S2 >
Chris Sands — April 24, 2007 @ 2:56 am
But when some writers talk of ‘new master signifiers aren’t they
expressing a yearning for the discourse of the hysteric?
This arguement suggests late capitalism has adopted the discourse of the
analyst, I think, but isn’t the master literally ‘up against the wall’ (bar)
in this case?
a … // … S/
S2 … // … S1
violet — April 22, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
S/ —-> S1
a…..//….S2 The Discourse of the Hysteric
of course the S/ should be barred and the arrows up from a to S/ and dpwn
from S1 to S2
The hysteric S/ puts the master S1 against the wall, who am I?
Chris Sands — April 22, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
There was an extraordinary film made c. 1920 called Entracte, more neat
dada than surreal and I get the feeling that suddenly groups of people got
hold of this material, but afterwards in some ways, it’s all downhill in the
direction of surrealism. The material surfaces again perhaps with Lacan, I
think. I remember a phrase, something like ‘there’s no clinic with an
epistemology’ and imagine this could a Lacanian sense of this ‘material’. I’m
often struck by the care that many writers associated with this journal take
with sets of co-ordinates and terms like ‘object a’.
Sol — April 22, 2007 @ 9:17 am
Just browsing the art & lacan symposia, and I’m interested CS,
what work do you refer to when you write (last year) that:
“in the 1920's and 20's some of the most serious work was
influenced by Freud”?
I was reading Breton’s letter to Freud awhile ago.
I laughed when he wrote that he understood Freud, but Freud
didn’t understand surrealism. he is perhaps right, but it reminded
me of someone’s beautiful postiing (much more concisely phrased)
about the hysteric, who demands that the master understand her,
and then comlains that he doesn’t understand enough of her.
Chris Sands — April 22, 2007 @ 4:00 am
Have just noticed a forthcoming Athens Biennial is setting up a radio
station to coincide with their biennial
(https://www.artwaveradio.net/en/home.html). They will be broadcasting
recorded material and something like this was tried at the time of the 2005
Venice Biennial. Less interactive than web based material, could something
like this be an interesting alternative for Lacan.com? There must be a limit
to what can be shown on a website, but I suppose it’s also all time and
money. There’s a weighty sponsorship list attached to the biennial site.
admin — April 22, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
CS - these messages belong in the art & lacan symposia
Chris Sands — April 22, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
Admin, can these messages stay here - as a souvenir?
Alice, this was reference to Fellini, who was always in control of things!
alice — April 22, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
CS - is it acephallic narrative we are talking about?
violet1 — April 22, 2007 @ 11:27 am
censorship
is a sinking ship
that i put at the bottom of well.
Sol — April 22, 2007 @ 5:28 am
thanks CS
Chris Sands — April 22, 2007 @ 2:28 am
As for suddenly ‘being in a film’, could it be a ‘Fellini moment’ perhaps,
where without warning, serious narrative finds itself in the middle of a film
crew?
Sol, am still thinking about your referernce to a virtual pause and an
imaginary other. The term ’sinthome’ is sometimes seen as a mix of symptom
and fantasme - and have just re-read JA Miller’s (brilliant) essay (here
online) ‘Pure Psychoanalysis, Applied Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy’,
which locates the ‘object a’ between the symbolic and real (in late Lacan).
This may seem a ‘long shot’ re. your reference to ‘pause’ and ‘imaginary
other’, but I think JAM (at the end of a complex arguement) calls this
‘object a’ a ‘make believe’.
So, have turned your ‘imaginary other’ into ‘object a’, but despite the
limits of messageboard and symposia, don’t we imagine (an)other - and posit a
‘make believe’ - and sometimes come up with what Lucky, I think, called ‘an
arrow in belief’? (Sorry Lucky, if I’m misquoting you or if it was someone
else who said something like this)
Chris Sands — April 22, 2007 @ 2:50 am
Sol “(re.62), it seems we’re making use of the symposia site as there is
currently a technical problem with the messageboard, although I’ll miss your
company once it’s been sorted out!
alice — April 21, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
lucky - which film? chris sand’s film in the perfume page?
violet — April 21, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
I adhere to jampa’s suggestion with regard to Lucky helping to understand
his post
Sol — April 21, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
CS how do we get into the message board now?
will we be emailed a username and password or what?
Do you know?
Sol
lucky — April 21, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Tweas a strange whirld. It concerns the film, what I think
jampa — April 21, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
Lucky: Believe it or not, the radio started playing Jethro Tull singing
“your wise men don’t know how it feels to be thick as a brick” just as i
picked up the keybouard to ask: Can you (or someone) please help me
understand your post?
lucky — April 21, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Mad that the stones were stopping then glad not to be swept away. Very
juvenile response. All stuck in their fantasms from their to the death of the
other for real. Very sad. Unless it’s a promotion of coarse.
Chris Sands — April 21, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
That’s ok!
lucky — April 22, 2007 @ 12:29 am
Yes alice that one. Now it must all explain itself
admin — April 22, 2007 @ 1:25 am
Sol - you are in the messageboard with your name Sol and the same password
— e-mail — you’ve been using — also there is the ARCHIVE you asked for up
there
alice — April 22, 2007 @ 1:19 am
what does the host say? after all it is his movie
admin — April 21, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Dear CSS - we are undergoing a messageboard accident,
so there won’t be one till someone comes to help next week…
the fact is that it desappeared
so the traffic comes directly to your place - till we solve this
Chris Sands — April 15, 2007 @ 9:42 am
(Jampa) After your message was left to dwell on Tarkovsky and David Lynch.
Well, T talked and wrote a lot about his films and I only know DL’s work from
a few films. Musing what might be meant by ‘alienation’ and ’separation’
(messageboard 14.4), T’s films seem to do with an impossible separation and
could DL’s work have to do with the possibility of collaboration, community,
communication?
If I say that I make use of different resources (video, text, painting,
installations, web) hazarding the survival of my relationship to the work of
art, then perhaps it has to do with ‘alienation’. But there are times when
(as JAM puts it) the slate is (so) wiped clean that as a painter or
filmmaker, I make do (somehow) with pictures. In Sem. X1, Lacan refers to the
scopic drive somehow eluding the term castration.
jampa — April 10, 2007 @ 9:56 pm
The recent excursion into Tarkovsky (and levitation, of all goddamn
things), and your subsequent posts Chris, your journal like meditations upon
life under the artist signifier, made me wish i’d invoked David Lynch rather
than the Russian genius, “If you can talk about it, why make a film about
it?”. (Or compose music?) Lacan seems to have rendered legible much of what
was thereunto ineffable, yet art, some of it great, continues to be made
despite Badiou’s misgivings- and why must Empire ‘unrecognise’ it? Lynch
invites us to produce, with heart and nous and compassion… and singularity of
thus informed sensibility, to bloody well produce. Who, ‘empirically’, can
declare what ‘Lost Highway’ or ‘Mullholland Drive’ are about? Lynch’s debt to
Freud (see ‘Firewalk’ if its unrecognisable elsewhere) is huge and repaid,
because Empire is among his audience not because its barred from it. But like
you Chris, in the shadow of Lacanian discourse, art sometimes breathes
heavily from me, perhaps we have less debt and more inheritance?
Chris Sands — April 8, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
Reading so often prompts thoughts of new work.
So, munching my way through ‘the Later Lacan’ (Voruz and Wolf) came across
sentences written by Eric Laurent - which in turn led to a paragraph and
thoughts of a new collaborative work. It might begin with a commonly heard
phrase ‘being an artist’. First Eric Laurent’s text, then my hesitant paragraph.
‘Chinese is not an Indo European language; it has no verb ‘to be’. At the
place of the copula there is this invention proper to Chinese, which is that
the word ‘tao’ means at the same time ‘to do’ and ‘to say’, ‘to enunciate’.
‘the Later Lacan’, p.42).
So, in retaliation, wrote a dubious and slightly confessional paragraph:
What concerns me, in one instance, is the time it takes ‘to be an artist’-
and in my case ‘being an artist’ can have to do with ‘being a therapist’.
This will be worrying of course, but my first question can be, how can there
be time for both? Furthermore, if ‘being an artist’ has more to do with being
in the place of the artist, can there be a passage between two positions, the
place of artist and therapist?
Chris Sands — February 6, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
Somehow, linguistics and epistemology come to mind. What does Lacan mean
by writing and reading … or, why a play which begins with ‘doesn’t stop being
written’ seems so important? I’ve forgotten what this was about, but
recently, I experienced being interviewed (live) on a radio station and
despite it being so early in the morning, I managed to keep in mind ‘the
imperative’ to keep things flowing: an interview that keeps the traffic
flowing! My ploy had to do with small breaks - pauses, small peak time
concessions. I remember trying to ‘make sense’ of these passages in Encore,
but most of all remember the work (of making sense) …
rupert — February 1, 2007 @ 11:25 pm
Chris, it is Freud_s assertion that when drive, that is _trieb_, _pulsion_
not instinct, is somehow focused towards an end that is not sexual it
acquires a new social value and he called that _movement_sublimation. It is
also said that Freud took the word sublimation from sublime… A friend of mine
told me that once he asked very boldly to a young woman who happened to be a
nun how did she solve the problems posed by the flesh, le desir de la chair,
she looked at him very serious showing a ring in her median finger, _I_m
married to God and when I feel the call of the flesh I sublimate_. Well, you
never know with women, but in Encore, in the chapter le savoir et la verite,
Lacan says something like (I translate) _analysis assumes that desire is
inscribed through a bodily contingence_, this contingence, _qui ne cesse de
ne pas s__crire_is the phallus. I think that he says that the _ne cesse
pas_introduces necessity whereas _ne cesse pas de ne pas s__crire_means the
impossible and then the impossibility of l_acte sexuel. Well, very
complicated to understand, at least to me, but yes sublimation, sublimation
of the flesh, renunciation which is surrender, yes the work of art is that
renunciation, the phallic function somehow immolated in the act of unveiling
the invisible, maybe that_s what happens to Badiou who still seems to be in
search of the lost (master) signifier…
Chris Sands — January 27, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
Rupert, I thought your assertion that ‘art (somehow) materializes in
psychoanalysis through sublimation’ deserves a response.:Clearly, you are
referring to the ‘art of magic’ - and wasn’t it Joseph Bueys who first
explained art to a rabbit??
But perhaps you've solved Alain Badiou’s ‘problem’. If art materializes in
psychoanalysis, Badiou’s reference to contemporary art’s subordination to
psychoanalysis is neither here or there. We might also discount Badiou's
reference to 'rendering visible' and the term 'inexistent' in the last of his
fifteen theses on contemporary art. Number fifteen’s bothered me far too
long! It reads 'It is better to do nothing than to contribute to the
invention of formal ways of rendering visible that which Empire already
recognizes as existent.'
So, following the assertion that Eros and Thanatos are antagonistic, but not
complimentary, we could , like Badiou (perhaps), see the artist (some day)
pull the ‘new master signifier’ from the hat which is neither sublimation or
sinthome.
Chris Sands — January 24, 2007 @ 9:22 am
(Lucky) How is this a question?
lucky — January 22, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
How were we warned about the numerical signifier?
Chris Sands — January 12, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
The site seemed stuck on a quote from Zizek (my fault!), so have added two
more from the end of JA Miller’s DETACHED PIECES. The first is from Lacan
(JOYCE THE SYMPTOM), but I’m seriously puzzled by JAM’s last sentences. The
first seems to have more to do with contemporary art and less to do with
twentieth century’s first take on psychoanalysis (surrealism).
1. Lacan writes: ‘Joyce takes the breath away from the dream of literature,
and the fact that he wakes up the unawakened is the sign that he wanted to
end it, since it only endured as a dream’.
2. At the end JAM writes: ‘Whether the unconscious disappears or not, it
should be done in a good way. The bad thing, and it exists, is what we were
warned about last year: it is to suffocate it under the numerical signifier
by denying it all effect of truth’.
Waking this morning, having read JAM’s text the night before, the mystery of
these last sentences - turned towards a critique of Walter Benjamin’s style -
after which they turned into a critique of the use of statistics to ‘prove’
the efficacy of therapies (as in cognitive behavioural therapy). But there
must be a much better explanation …?
Chris Sands — December 17, 2006 @ 9:54 am
In a chapter called THE POLITICS OF REDEMPTION, Slavoj Zizek talks about
moments when with music, in this case, it’s ‘the truth itself which speaks’.
The inference might be, that with the work of art, there seem to be moments
when the work is diffused by process, or there are moments when a process
(eg. collaboration in contemporary art) is put aside. Zizek writes, ‘We often
hear that, if we are to understand a work of art, we need to know its
historical context. Against this historicist commonplace, we should argue
that too much of a historical context can blur the proper contact with a work
of art’. Zizek then refers to a need to sometimes ‘decontextualize’ the work.
(Zizek chapter in LACAN, THE SILENT PARTNERS)
Chris Sands — December 15, 2006 @ 4:42 am
This may have been the case with Lacan’s Courbet, but does the veil idea
still suffice? If we’ve moved from Freud to Joyce, from the work of art as
symptom to work as sinthome, the veil no longer simply covers but is part of
the work. With a view to collaborations and art - isn’t the work as much the
collaboration as the residue of collaboration?
gal — December 15, 2006 @ 1:57 am
truth is revealed through whatever veils hide it… evidence can be a veil -
the veil that hides the real tricked the birds - with Zeuxis - as the birds
started picking at the grapes…
Again, the veil that hides the real tricked the human eye - with Parrasios:
Lacan often evokes the classical tale of the contest between the two Greek
painters, Zeuxis and Parrhasios: victory goes to Parrhasios who paints on the
wall a veil, so that Zeuxis turns to him and says:
“Well, and now show us what you have painted behind it.”
Chris Sands — December 14, 2006 @ 8:40 pm
Could a truth, in this instance, have to do with ‘collaboration’? If the
term collaboration can be used to describe an attempt to comunicate across a
divide, Badiou, the philosopher, finds a way to talk to artists. If Badiou,
most of the time, has an existence as a philosopher, there are times when the
philosopher is economical and resorts to axioms. Much of what some artists
are involved with, is never seen. In a Badiou sense, the work remains
inexistent or an artist’s work eventually looks like an axiom. But, what an
artist finds are moments to profer an existence and from time to time the
work is visible. If the work is sometimes stale, so too are opportunities for
the work of art in a capitalist world. Badiou’s letter in the form of axioms
pose questions and if he puts some artists to work, it’s possibly time a few
artists return the compliment. If there’s some relation between an artist’s
existence and collaboration in a capitalist world, then the play can include
two versions of the unconscious x 2 (at least|).
rupert — December 14, 2006 @ 5:22 am
To Badiou the truth of an event resides in the fact that it carries with
it a “truth”. So for example the Russian Revolution is an event but 9/11 is
not. In the same vein some works of art are “truth art” while others aren’t.
Who decides which is which? The art market? The artist? (or should I rather
say “the producer”?) I think Badiou is trapped within the old dichotomy of
“creator” versus “producer”. Is Badiou a late follower of Benjamin? Art
versus Politics, or fascist aestheticism versus revolutionary art…
Chris Sands — December 7, 2006 @ 6:20 am
continued message - when one discourse turns towards another? When we move
towards the real, we perhaps come across axioms, mathemes, formulas … (?)
The formula that I’m working with (for the moment) might be (for example) … …
in a world of stiffling beaurocratic regulation AND an imperative to enjoy,
art ’stumbles’ through ‘four discourses’ until it comes to Badiou’s ‘It is
better to do nothing than to contribute to the invention of formal ways of
rendering visible that which Empire already recognizes as existent’ …
Taken from Badiou’s 15 theses for contemporary art, this last point seems to
resonate a little with Lacan’s ’speaking well’
(Rather than take up too much space with something which happens between
discourses, have also pasted this to ‘art+Lacan symposia)
Chris Sands — December 7, 2006 @ 6:17 am
In LacInk JAM talks of a Freudian and Joycean symptom, but does love
tucked between discourses fit both symptom and sinthome? If we move with a
later Lacan towards structures which are real, aren’t we left with nervous
formulas and - sometimes foreclosure
Chris Sands — December 2, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
Have uploaded changes to site indicated by icons at the top and wonder
whether should steal - for this site - reference to Badiou’s drawing on
messageboard
jampa — November 21, 2006 @ 6:20 pm
cs: I seem to have hijacked your symposium and driven it into a cul-de-sac
where resides just me and my symptoms! Apologies for that for sure if they’re
in order. I’ve wondered if I’m obliging you to provide me with an online
analysis?! I’m sure their’ll be plenty more fading before.. Warren Vance is
an Australian artist I’d like to bring to your attention, i’d upload some
photos if i had an address. There’s a rare beauty to his compositions which
seems to reward narcissism and dissolve it…
chris sands — November 20, 2006 @ 6:12 pm
(jampa) On what basis no answer?
You seemed to be demonstrating an instance of fading, of fading subjectivity
on one side and confirmation on the other.
jampa — November 20, 2006 @ 1:58 am
Hmm, no answer. I get a lot of that
jampa — November 17, 2006 @ 9:55 pm
“on a bike or a bus
a glimpse then gone
before I could think to want her.”
Is this something of woman disappeared and the place of desire with regard to
her?
If I knocked at Chris Sands’ door to find the Chris of this symposium, as an
artist and Lacanian, would he be home?
chris sands — November 15, 2006 @ 7:25 pm
Have just scanned net and it seems Ellie Ragland wrote an essay looking at
this film from a Lacanian perspective. I haven’t read it but picking up
something from the synopsis, the suggestion (or Ellie Ragland’s suggestion)
might be that the film is concerned with a subjectivity which Lacan
attributes to the ‘woman who does not exist’. In this sense I’d suggest
Veronique’s subjectivity can be ‘hard won’ - or even lethal!
Looked at alongside the first part of Decalogue (which I’ve seen), the film
seems overworked, very beautiful but overworked! It’s too much and could keep
us talking for a long time, but surely the ‘lost object in both cases is a
missing mother. Both women are brought up by their fathers.
jampa — November 15, 2006 @ 8:09 am
Please do. Do you resent its eulogizing, mystifying, hankering for lost
object tone? Isn’t that deliberate though? To make her evaporation of
uniqueness more telling? And sure her subjectivity (if that equates to the
imaginary self) fades with the loss of her double but isn’t that the point?
What has she lost but ignorance? But yes you’re the author of ‘… some
subjectivities are hard won, if at all’ from the ‘old messageboard’.
Veronique isn’t in want of a subjectivity, just disillusionment.
chris sands — November 15, 2006 @ 5:45 am
Veronique would never have noticed her double without the puppeteer and if
he forces this recognition on her, he forces her disappearance - return to
her father. As for S1 and S2, would need Perfume’s help here. I have in mind
(also) a process called ‘aphanisis’ and Lacan’s graph of desire, Veronique
describes her feelings … she describes always having felt she has a double …
and the puppeteer makes the mistake of forcing this double into existence -
when he points her out in a photo. Veronique’s subjectivity fades with the
loss of her double.
I fear, as you suggest, there is too much material here. Discourse, graph of
desire, doubles and haven’t yet mentioned the role of music in this film …
jampa — November 15, 2006 @ 1:18 am
So thank-you, Kieslovski is fertile for Lacanians! Hell you’re a clever
dude(ette?)! Which discovery of Veronique’s, that of her doppleganger or
another? If the double then the disappearance, the evaporation is of her ego,
her self as other, other as self- as the tears fall for her lost communion.
(if i could cry, I would shed a tear for Sol- how beautifully he renders
loss…) Are you saying that the puppeteer’s appropriation of her biography is a
master’s discourse? I can sense how you locate the unconscious between S1 and
S2
chris sands — November 14, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
(Violet) Have just noticed your bed. The woman in the photo doesn’t seem
middle aged to me!
chris sands — November 14, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
With Kieslovski’s ‘Double Life of Veronique’ (perhaps) - Veronique
disappears when she becomes ‘the subject’ of the puppeteer’s art (S1). The
gap between S1 and S2 could be the gap of the unconscious … what Veronique
discovers determines her disappearance.
jampa — November 14, 2006 @ 7:24 am
May I respond with a question? How does the unconscious find its way into
Lacan’s four discourses?
(To hazard a guess-reply I would say wherever the barred S appears- the
immanent pole of omniscience,
while each matheme would be suddenly bracketed, the transcendent pole…)
Obviously this is foolhardy, to try and discuss within such a heavily
discourse dependent paradigm that which is well beyond the end of dicursive
reach… But the ideal interlocutor is an artist/philosoher as well as a
scholar/clinician
chris sands — November 12, 2006 @ 5:46 pm
(Jampa) How would your all knowing subjectivity find its way into Lacan’s
four discourses?
jampa — November 12, 2006 @ 2:47 am
dear chris, thanks again for responding via me to your ideal interlocutor-
Tracey Emin’s ‘Bed’ reminds me of a sheet i mounted and framed in the 80’s
covered in cum and menstrual blood- concrete universality rings of Lacan’s
‘omniscient unconscious’ or Hegel’s ‘absolute knowledge’ of which Lacan is so
fond in the 50’s. But the cognitive world would have to get into bed with
Buddhism for me to have more to say except- what would it take for Lacanian
discourse to accomodate an omniscient… subject?
violet — November 12, 2006 @ 1:01 am
with Ron Mueck it is “in Bed ” big photo in the Friday Times - showing at
the Brooklyn Museum, till February… “in Bed” is in turn the cover of his
catalogue, a white pristine bed, with a middle aged woman lying in it.
chris sands — November 10, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
(Jampa) I find what you are saying interesting but need to know more about
what you mean by a ‘benign unconscious’. It reminds me of conversations at
the end of the ‘old messageboard’ and a broadening of the notion of
subjectivities. Some writers refer to a ‘ concrete universality’ (as opposed
to an abstract universality) and there’s a Lacanian Joyce and the
subjectivity of contemporary art.
jampa — November 9, 2006 @ 7:28 am
A provocative reply and worth its wait in gold {chatroom!}. I’ve read the
book Zizek cites ‘Kieslovski on Kieslovski’ Faber + Faber, and its remarkable
for its intuition of whats impossible in the document(ary) account of his
workings, the man’s measure of the fiction in his truth. The ‘trap’ word
appears again and again but always in terms of the limits of the chosen
medium- very instructive for an artist trying to speak sanely, but afresh of
the veiled but intelligible. But dear Chris Sands, do you know Kieslovski’s
work and does my claim that he makes the unconscious vivid, and, (another
claim) benign, have any pertinence?
chris sands — November 8, 2006 @ 5:59 pm
Jampa re. Kieslovski
Zizek in the ‘Parallax View’ (p.21) quotes the director, describing his switch
from documentary to fiction, cocurring perhaps Lacan’s point that ‘truth is
like a fiction’. It’s worth the full quote I think.
‘Not everything can be described. That’s the documentary’s great problem. It
catches itself as if in it’s own trap … If I’m making a film about love, I
can’t go into a bedroom if real people are making love there … I noticed,
when making documentaries, that the closer I wanted to get to an individual,
the more objects that interersted me shut themselves off.
That’s probably why I changed to features. There’s no problem there. I need a
couple to make love in bed, that’s fine. Of course, it might be difficult to
find an actress who’s willing to take her bra off, but then you just find one
who is … I can even buy some glycerine, put some drops in her eyes and the
actress will cry. I managed to photograph some real tears several times. It’s
something completely different. But now I’ve got glycerine, I’m frightened of
real tears. In fact, I don’t even know whether I’ve got the right to
photograph them. At such times I feel like somebody who’s found himself in a
realm which is, in fact, out of bounds. That’s the main reason why I escaped
from documentaries’.
Having quoted this passage, I’d say that artists using film (and
installation) often find themselves in a place between documentary and
fiction …
chris sands — November 6, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
dear Jampa, thanks for Maurice Blanchot, it’s appreciated. I can’t answer
your reference to alcohol or Kieslovski tonight as have only a little time.
Re. accomodating film … artists now frequently make use of video
installations and an example of work associated with this trend can be found
on Perfume’s site (icon above) with the work of artist, Eiza-Liisa Ahlila.
Will respond more fully when there’s time.
jampa — November 5, 2006 @ 9:12 pm
Someone knocked at Maurice Blanchot’s door and asked him for an interview.
Blanchot replied, “Maurice Blanchot doesn’t live here”. Could this be the
‘inexistence’ with which artists contend, a hint of it?
Chris: Where on the message board is alcohol an issue or were you able to
discern that from here, on my desert island, my posts were sometimes drunken?
If so, i’m a bit impressed! Anyway, can art and lacan accomodate film? I’d be
glad to hear your thoughts on Kieslovski’s work, particularly ‘The Decalogue’
where the unconscious figures almost as a principal ‘character’…
chris sands — November 2, 2006 @ 6:04 pm
(Lucky) Had in mind the price of subordination, which is Badiou’s case.
But taking (reading) Badiou’s notion of ‘inexistence’ again, there is
possibly another price, which has nothing to do with the relation of art and
psychoanalysis. When Badiou locates ‘the work of art’ in the (downloadable)
lecture, earlier this year, he reminds the audience that many artists,
writers etc. live and die in extreme poverty.
chris sands — November 2, 2006 @ 5:55 pm
(Paul) Yes, in the pre war period you can see an obvious response to Freud
paul — November 2, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
As to the art influenced by Freud, are we talking of dada, cubism,
surrealism…?
lucky — November 2, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
What kind of price would you mean?
chris sands — November 2, 2006 @ 6:20 pm
(Gal) Are you suggesting that there’s something that I should know?
chris sands — November 2, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
(Lucky) This is something that Badiou says. My own guess would be that in
the 1920’s and 20’s some of the most serious work was influenced by Freud and
more recently, Lacan seemingly sometimes makes much possible in contemporary
art. In other words, you can make use of Lacanian ideas to ‘make sense’ of
some new work, but perhaps there’s a price. Take dreams for example. If
artists have always been influenced by dreams, you might say that it’s hard
to look at dreams without acknowledging Freud’s contribution to an
understanding of dreams. I think Badiou suggests artists contend with
‘inexistence’, whether, perhaps, it’s the inexistence of art or inexistence
in a political sense.
lucky — November 2, 2006 @ 2:49 pm
How is it art is subservient to psychoanalysis in all? Doesn’t some escape
it or not even know about it?
gal — November 2, 2006 @ 4:06 am
I know you like it but I tend to think we are too alone - you an me - in
this desert island called art @ lacan
chris sands — October 20, 2006 @ 5:18 pm
After responding to you I thought about this image, wondering what it
might be about. Also, before Perfume reminded me, I’d forgotten references to
Tracey Emin (in an old text).
So, visions of Tracey and a desert island? Yesterday, I googled Britain’s
representative for next year’s Venice Biennale, but found she has a fan club,
but no publicized email address. So it looks like it’s going to be just me
and that desert island.
But the desert island owes something to ongoing messageboard conversations.
Visions of paradise famously crop up in clinical work that includes alcohol
issues. I think the word alcohol is arabic for paradise.
gal — October 20, 2006 @ 2:17 pm
“desert island, laptop and an occasional show visible to passing satelites
between the palms trees …” alone?
chris sands — October 20, 2006 @ 4:11 am
Traditionally, the artist is attached to a muse but more recently to
laptop and broadband. If Walter Benjamin’s ‘Art in an Age of Mechanical
Reproduction’ is seen as seminal, do we any longer have the need for
‘mechanical reproduction’? So, desert island, laptop and an occasional show
visible to passing satelites between the palms trees …
gal — October 29, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
life on a desert island….? doesn’t sound like you will find human life —
not that you will find the Other
chris sands — October 29, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
I‘ve mixed feelings at the outset of the all new symposia talking about
Tracey from Margate. Reference to her work is EMBEDDED in a text which will
now NOT be used in a forthcoming exhibition. Early on in a project, I thought
the show could be part of strategy to set up a contemporary art foundation in
an out of the way location, but a week before this small show, all my
ambitions seem directed towards putting on ‘something at all’. This could be
an arguement for exhibitions. An exhibition, even a small one, possibly
settle for something Real!
If I’m failing to make the case for contemporary art where I live, I could
say I also failed to come up with some excuse to contact Tracey Emin. The
woes of a collaborative project finally got the better of me and the project
moved away from ‘being a calling card’. The lure of a bed turned towards
‘desperate sublimation’.
For my next project, I have in mind the work of art as an exploration of life
on a desert island …
gal — October 29, 2006 @ 2:56 pm
aren’t the confusions between life and art what we like in Tracy Emin’s
work?
perfume — October 27, 2006 @ 1:42 am
Bits and pieces of the critic selected by White Cube
Tracey Emin’s My Bed… on top there was a panty-hose and a towel; alongside an
assortment of items from vodka bottles to slippers and underwear, cigarette
packs to condoms and contraceptives, Polaroid (self)portraits and a white
fluffy toy. For her London critics, My Bed exemplified and expressed Emin’s
sluttish personality, the detritus of a life quintessentially her own; it
was, above all, confessional — voice-overs by the artist, through scenarios
of clutter filmed in her apartment near Waterloo station in London, all of
which facilitated elisions between life and art and confusions between the
two.
chris sands — October 22, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
I should explain something about a bed, but will get to it slowly, I fear.
If the bed in question has to do with sensibilities on this side of the
Atlantic - the bed (presently) reminds me of a slow moving conversation that
makes reference to ‘Anti Oedipus’ (on messageboard), but also a description
of an exhibition in Bremen (https://www.gak-bremen.de/) provided by E-Flux.
The blurb refers to attitudes to work and I have in mind Gerard Wajcman’s use
of the phrase ‘the work of art’, but alongside this, the last of Badiou’s
fifteen theses, which I read as challenging because I still remember my own
unwillingness to have anything to do with art after art school in the early
1970’s (and for along time after this!)
Badiou wrote: ‘It is better to do nothing than to contribute to the invention
of formal ways of rendering visible that which Empire already recognizes as
existent’.
The tone is possibly too distant, but I think there’s still the sense of a
time and a sense of what an artist does or should be doing or shouldn’t be
doing.
Annnnd, so to Tracey’s bed … which could be indicative of the (famous) long
drawn silence of the artist or something else. When I reference to the bed,
there was a lot on my mind at the start of a project which now seems almost
finished (or spent).
perfume — October 22, 2006 @ 12:27 pm
“…a response to Tracey Emin’s bed…” I found this sentence in the archives.
Could you tell us more about it… Tracy Emin’s bed is very popular so we would
know of the bed
chris sands — October 21, 2006 @ 6:20 pm
thank you Perfume, things are so good today that my world’s turned orange!
Perfume — October 21, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
We missed you Chris Sands and The Art And Lacan Symposium, …. Welcome
back!
chris sands — October 21, 2006 @ 11:21 am
Welcome to a new format here.
A small delay is incorporated in the process for the moment as the site
seemed blocked for a few months due to constant spam.
The site was set up originally to look at a confluence of contemporary art
and Lacanian ideas - CS.
- 08/06/06 02:55:24 EDT
It seems permission was given to relocate a message first placed on the
messageboard.
At present no initials are being used, but the message reads in a piece of
sculpture - the woman lies on the floor, the man is on top, they are
supposedly making love - she says "lie to me…," and he has a huge
long nose that resembles Pinoccio's
This site began live with a view to 'collaborations'. If this proves far
fetched, do we have the option of an online text based 'gallery'? If the
messageboard can be a place where well thought out questions can be
articulated, could this site become a place which perpetuates the possibility
of art as 'saving grace'?
- 07/20/06 17:10:21 EDT
Its a mood thing ...
kittykate1224 - 07/29/06 20:19:27 EDT
that is lots of words to read!!!!!!!!!!!
CS. - 07/22/06 02:18:18 EDT
Excerpt from ongoing project provided by symposia host (installation text and
and in part video script):
Before the inception of a project called ‘ANTIGONE’S PLASTER’, there’s a
preoccupation with work. In an early text, two people move from place to
place, alienated, separate eventually. Towards the end of the first part of
this old text, a solitary figure walks through a forest at night, drawn
towards oblivion outside Paris.
‘DOES THE LOCATION OF THE WORKLESS WORK OF ART MATTER?’
A journey, oblivion outside Paris, fort studio and foundation are laptop-
closing moments. The speech idea is limited. Adventure is curtailed close to
narrative or the idea of narrative. There are two voices; one (in some way),
the voice of a French Napoleonic soldier and the other is a proposition and
subtext.
PROPOSITION WITHIN A PROPOSITION
How do you first propose the setting up of a contemporary art foundation in
the form of an open letter? Does an open letters carry the solitude of an
artist’s position?
It seems there must be a proposition within a proposition. If the proposition
is linked to an exhibition in the first place and to one artist’s ongoing
project, there must be another motion behind it all. An open letter can be
addressed to artists who have international reputations. Artists could
contribute work to a first show, which might provide initial foundation
funding.
The idea of a foundation is first muted in an exhibition this October and
November (in Jersey). Let’s say, a project in the form of a video based
installation (three films and text) is, first and foremost, a response to
Tracey Emin’s bed. I should write and tell her that she’s my inspiration and
if I write to one artist, I can write to others.
But there ’s more. A response to one artist’s bed can’t be a premise for too
many artists. If writing to one artist involves one premise, I need another.
I don’t want to curate anything, but feel there’s room for a premise that
might interest artists in a show that won’t make them rich.
‘THE ART OF ONE GOOD EYE’
‘In the normal course of things, the gaze is not visible, for the subject
separates himself in order to see’. (Joan Copjec, ‘Imagine There’s No Woman’
p.195 MIT Press)
There’s a glimmering ‘subjectivity’ at the heart of contemporary art, which
has sometimes something to do with art and psychoanalysis.
Lacan talks about the visual world midway through his work in Seminar X1. His
gaze is ‘the gaze’ of the Freudian drive and the gaze seems far removed from
the process of ‘looking’ and the unconscious. There is something exclusive
about each of these terms and with the hindsight of Lacan’s ‘Encore’ and
Joyce seminars, there’s a tenuous subjectivity between drive and the
unconscious, between ‘looking’ and ‘the gaze’. I think this patch is evident
in some descriptions of therapy (see online ‘Courtil Papers’), but also with
contemporary art.
But the patch is no proposition. A foundation based in a fort and a response
to someone’s bed eventually fails as a proposition because a proposition
addressed to ‘artists with international reputations’ CAN ONLY BE A PROPOSITION
BY ITSELF. The patch can include geography, a patch between Britain and
France, the patch of a pirate in search of new ‘identity’. It can include a
pirate dressed in French Napoleonic uniform in an October show, but a premise
that might interest overseas artists must go further.
In his ‘Ecrits’ (2002 pub. Norton, p.281-212), Lacan describes a fading
subjectivity. Later on, this analyst presupposes the drive but makes no
assumptions about the unconscious. If there’s a starting place, the work of
psychoanalysis begins where other people and subjectivity are avoided at all
costs.! Between subjectivity and what Lacan calls ‘jouissance’, the bare
white walls of museums and galleries duplicate the (hoped for) consistency of
the therapist’s room.
TALKING ABOUT MY WORK AGAIN!
The foundation proposition is written into the script of a speech in a film
called ‘FIRST PERSON’. Far too long, it’s an aside in the form of a text
linking three installation films.
If I mention it at all, it has something to do with the form of a script: an
unfinished speech littered with ‘questions’, two voices instead of one. If I
return to the speech format to provide the sense of a commentary in a
proposition, it’s because collaboration on a video or foundation project can
be a lonely business!
‘CAN I WRITE SPEECH AND PROPOSAL AT THE SAME TIME?’
Probably not!
But the other day, I had this Fellini experience. It happened watching one of
his films. In fact, I’d forgotten all about Fellini, What can I say? Video
projects and political agitation in the form of a foundation proposal can
seem too serious! I need a little bit of Fellini in my film and in a patchy
proposal that will probably end up in so many bins!
‘LIGHTEN UP’
‘Lighten up’, you say! The videos will be fine, so too propositioning Tracey
and others.
A foundation based in Jersey can still be about a piracy lingering between
Britain and France. The Channel Islands are uniquely English and French and
presently sucked dry of ‘cultural boundaries status’. To celebrate a merger
of cultural reserve and charm, I’d like to propose a show called ‘FROM
MANIFESTOS TO PROPOSITIONS’. The exhibition would be open to artists who
would be willing to contribute work towards the setting up of a foundation.
This is starting from scratch. I have in mind an artist’s organisation,
whatever this might mean.
‘FIDELITY TO THE WORK OF ART?’
Lastly, a letter. The letter must be straight to the point. Most artists with
international reputations will have little time to extract a proposition within
a proposition!
A LETTER
Enclosed is an open letter addressed to a group of (overseas) artists and
others in Jersey. The letter includes a proposition - and attached is a text
from work to be shown this autumn. It provides a little context.
Dear Artist and others,
This letter proposes the setting up of a foundation for contemporary art
based in Jersey. It asks for support. Please read on. This letter makes a
case and suggests a way artists can help.
SO WHY SUPPORT A PENNYLESS FOUNDATION?
Let’s say, that between private and political patronage‘, the work of art’
survives with a little help, here and there. It’s a nice idea!
A foundation mutes ‘looking after’ contemporary art and artists and the idea
of a foundation is some kind of ‘founding act’. It secures a position without
necessarily being able to establish an organisation, support projects, and
put on shows. It’s a start!
The notion of a Jersey based foundation is more problematic. The idea of
foundation based in a locality between Britain and France may be interesting,
but there is no obvious part that Jersey plays in the history of contemporary
art. In this sense, positing Jersey as a location where art can be seen and
supported is neither here or there!
The proposition in fact mutes the idea of work that can be shown anywhere and
at any time. It even proposes contemporary art as a ‘founding act’. The
notion of a ‘founding act’ is in fact taken from Lacan and the text
accompanying the letter (from an autumn show) makes reference to two
‘founding acts’.
There are always impasses accompanying contemporary art. Grinding to a halt
proposing a contemporary art foundation based in Jersey, I remember ‘a
Fellini moment’. A thumbnail accompanying this letter is taken from a
documentary made about Fellini with the filmmaker’s help.
jeannot - 07/17/06 09:20:10 EDT
communities of plants are just as possible as people communities? in that
each involves interaction with others in your own community? coming together
by chance or design for common purpose?
- 07/15/06 04:22:52 EDT
The site is more than just an American site, so reference to plant
communities etc. could be a local issue. Looking at this idea from the
outside, there's this notion of 'plant communities'! 'Communities' as opposed
to so many intersections?
chrysta - 07/12/06 22:08:06 EDT
is lacanart a name for the plant community gardens along freeway offramps and
other unused public spaces?
hazel - 07/04/06 01:11:57 EDT
lacanart... the nicest start we could.
CS. - 06/02/06 19:00:15 EDT
It sounds as if it might be difficult to know where to start!
i want to plant community gardens along freeway offramps and other unused
public space, does anyone care to do the same? - 06/02/06 22:22:56 EDT
ps. - 05/18/06 15:40:26 EDT
Benny Hill, a comedian - better known in Uk.
CS. - 05/18/06 12:47:41 EDT
‘REBUS’ AS PREMISE FOR A (COLLABORATIVE) SHORT FILM - IN TWO ACTS
It starts with the term ‘rebus’. Online qualification, dreams, Freud.
Afterwards a title and idea for short film. So, two instances, a filmed conversation,
two tasks for small cast. The first involves ‘explanation’ and the second,
looking through indexes in Lacanian literature. ‘Dreams’ replace the term
‘rebus’ in search.
One figure (in a filmed conversation) refers to a text, the other reports index
findings. There’s some caprice: French Napoleonic uniforms, silhouettes, the
use of voice-over. In Act two, a change of direction’ and with a change in
direction - reference to Benny Hill ...
CS. - 05/07/06 02:59:02 EDT
(jeannot) there's a lot about this site (Lac. Ink) which has to do with new
work, but for me especially there's Badiou's art texts and lectures and now
Zizek's 'Parallax View'. Badiou points to what could be the case with some
contemporary art (and even the function of art), while the title alone of
Zizek's new work refreshes the promise of Lacan's mid course art seminar
(s.xi) The unrealised promise of the symposia could have to do with artists
sharing ideas and projects in the light of psychoanalytic theory or sometimes
despite theory
CS. - 05/06/06 20:27:41 EDT
Have just made a nuissance of myself commenting about quirky stories on the
messageboard and to tell the truth, I'm seriously worried about birds in the
films referred to below. There's a 'free standing' trailer which brings together
three videos which should be shown together (as an installation). In the
trailer only, there's a crow, an ibis and crane, which is in fact a close up
of the moving cabin of the building site version. However, despite all
references to the cause of desire on this site, in one shot the crane driver
pretends he's the real thing.
Sol - 05/05/06 02:22:15 EDT
CS - I look and read and wonder, what is a bird?
jeannot - 04/20/06 07:09:22 EDT
This is a text response to viewing a video. The video itself is mentioned,
much earlier in this symposia, and on another page of this site. That page
can be viewed by clicking on the icon, above left, of the hen.
Is this a new mode of creating art ? or creating a new type of art ?
crystal - 04/27/06 12:15:11 EDT
what are you talking about
CS. - 02/28/06 02:52:26 EST
thanks Jeannot
jeannot - 02/24/06 09:25:26 EST
I like the video! (Antigone's Plaster 2 referred to earlier in the symposia)
There seems to be a sense of mystery at the beginning. What is the
significance of the hens ? The stills of the plants, interspersed with the
action is pleasing. There's plenty of change of activity, in speed and
direction of all the dogs, people on the beach and in the sea, plant
movement, sailing boats and sea action. Something different catches my eye on
each replaying.
I particularly like the two cyclists and the flight of the group of
starlings, but how cleaver to enhance this with music. What is the title of
the movie insert, with the woman selecting a record, playing the gramphone
and looking out onto her beach ? The general sound background, including dog
barks, laughter, speech, '...sand hoppers' and breaking waves help evoke
memory of events.
The night shot of the tables being almost washed away introduces another time
aspect to the senario.
All in all, a very pleasant sequence.
CS. - 02/10/06 05:26:10 EST
It seems to me that dream structure is the antithesis of the drive, a journey
never reaching a 'destination'.
Melody - 02/09/06 17:22:27 EST
Do you mean A dream is not the Antithesis of the drive when it fails to reach
it's goal?
CS. - 02/07/06 17:28:56 EST
(eva) thanks. But what I have in mind has to do with the structure of dreams.
If the unconscious - with dreams - is the antithesis of gratification and the
drive, it nevertheless seems dreams come to be associated with the artist's
jouissance, when that jouissance is only permitted in an art context. If
jouissance is always refused, 'the art world' locates the exception. My
question has to do with the place of dreams in an art world which conflates
dream structure and jouissance.
(It's something I'd want to put to Alain Badiou - in 'my dreams'!)
eva - 02/07/06 10:09:52 EST
I heard a folk or bunch say, that dreams or of sleep, when your sleeping
dream is hence awake in the moment of reality sleep. Then no project or idea
need change. The most part of people sleep, wishing to know something or to
entail the know how to make wishes come true. Sit under a tree perhaps, and
love it as yourself, watch the land of lands make your project if to this
world realize. when a project is for ones ego the project rises and then
falls, as simple as the walls of germany never thought to fall. That who
writes but a thought so you may ponder has risen since birth. Good-Luck
CS. - 02/22/06 17:06:18 EST
Risking saying too much, but with a view to calming the present lull, I
suggested a way of rescueing the site in conversation with Sol on the
messageboard, over the past few weeks. What follows is a draft towards a
project description, to be posted off (just possibly) to an address in Europe
which judges projects for a show in 2007. Posting it here, I have in mind the
idea of online collaboration, but also the idea of the symposia as a place
where other peoples projects can be aired.
project title: ‘AS PURE AS DRIVEN SNOW’
LOCATING THE PROJECT: When all projects somehow look like excerpts**, this
one is embedded in an ongoing project called ‘ANTIGONE'S PLASTER’. (An
earlier part of this project was shortlisted last year).
CONTENTION: Since Freud perhaps, we’ve lost the habit of talking about
dreams, instead therapy takes care of dream-work.
PROPOSAL: Assuming ‘the work of art’ still bears some relation to the
‘universal’, I propose a(nother) project to ‘re-evaluate’ ‘dream-work’. I
envisage work on a present day ‘book of dreams’ which is necessarily visual.
The assumption that the ‘book’ is necessarily visual presupposes a
‘contemporary condition of art’ dominated by the Text.
CONTEXT: If the work is ever so slightly Lacanian, it (ANTIGONE'S PLASTER)
seeks solace somewhere between live and online collaboration.
COLLABORATION: The project is first muted online , but is part of a project
which involves live collaboration. The online component is text based while
live material hazards the possibility of a ‘book of dreams’, in the form of
an artist's video. Despite references to psychoanalysis and a symposia which
was set up to look at the relationship of art and psychoanalysis, the project
posits the idea of reclaiming dreams (for art).
ACTION: I write a one line mini text. The text may be rewritten by others.
The idea of turning an online symposia into a dream site is itself a dream!
the online MINI TEXT reads:
‘AS SOON AS I THINK OF SOMETHING TO SAY - I FEEL SLEEPY.’
I SAY I WANT TO WRITE ‘A NOVEL’ (ONE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER BLOOMSDAY) BUT BEGIN
WITH A PLOY WHICH INVOLVES ASKING OTHERS WHO THEY THINK THIS SENTENCE BELONGS
TO.
LIVE: I propose a live project which involves collaboration with a staff
group in a large sports and leisure complex (once, the largest in Europe).
Built onto a Napoleonic fort, the site is politically sensitive. It’s losing
money while many want to ‘defend the fort’. A project is already agreed which
involves using ‘documentary techniques’ to record the thoughts and feelings
of a group of people working onsite.
ONE OR TWO PROJECTS?:
I will (hopefully) show a completed video ‘in situ’ at the end of year during
events which mark the fort’s bicentennial. I would like to bring together
online and live projects, but a local showing (possibly) limits the concerns
of ‘an artists video’. I would like to show the work overseas and would seek
permission to use recorded material for an artist’s video during the life of
the local project.
ARTISTS STATEMENT: Producing and showing conceptual art in a sports and
leisure complex may seem a ‘provocative act’ and there may eventually be two
versions of the work (two videos). Live collaboration inevitably mixes the
interests of collaborators and artist, and an artist’s ‘jouissance’ is possibly
only permissible in an art location!!!!!!! Locally, there may be little
interest in a response to Tracey Emin’s bed (in a sports and leisure
complex)! Inevitably, the project looks at two contexts for art. Despite the
concept of the readymade, on one level an artist’s motivations are always
‘suspect’ -outside an art environment.
PROJECT TITLE: The title of the project is reference to an artist’s
‘jouissance’.
CS. - 02/15/06 12:09:27 EST
I could paste some 'excerpts' from a now completed text, but these notes
would seem cold. They work as notes for a video based installation, which is
one context for them. Otherwise, their inclusion in the symposia (there were
a few) had to do with the idea of online collaboration, which has remained
one preoccupation in the life of the symposia. Some material disappeared, but
nothing dreadful has happened - and hopefully the idea of collaboration can
be revisited.
admin - 02/12/06 21:20:44 EST
I was referring to what was published in this symposium... and supposedly got
lost in the process of "migration" of the site - from verizon to
superpages
CS. - 02/12/06 18:08:28 EST
hello Admin. As soon as possible, will send Perfume the chapter (of a project
called 'Antigone's Plaster') referred to below (in excerpts). This will
include short videos and text. Also, currently, have asked Sol, via the
messageboard, if he could do some thinking with me to somehow open up a site
which, of late, has had too much to do with one project.
admin - 02/12/06 16:21:10 EST
dear CS - can we recover the "removed material," at least the one
you wrote?
CS. - 02/10/06 12:42:41 EST
dear Admin - sorry for the mistaken assumption ... there is however a funny
side to the term 'migration' when deleted texts refer to a script which
includes crows, an ibis etc.
admin - 02/09/06 22:20:07 EST
wrong! we did not remove the material - we did not edit the symposia... problems are created by verizon - they are doing what they call a migration of the website, which we didn´t ask for...
CS. - 02/09/06 18:12:01 EST
I assumed admin. removed the material, it was a few weeks back
CS. - 02/09/06 17:06:21 EST
(admin) Material was removed and the disappearance of this material coincided
with something which happened in the process of making a video. Something I
described as 'reading backwards' through a script. It seems less important
now.
admin - 02/06/06 12:46:22 EST
You have to look at the dates now! The gap is one left by some editing.
Who did the "some" editing?
CS. - 01/15/06 18:59:55 EST
You have to look at the dates now!
The gap is one left by some editing. If I'm still making sense of a third
video, then 'editing' is (for me) reading backwards through a script into a
hollow like scansion. This is a 'messageboard' topic at the moment.
Curiously, the video sequence I seem to be working on (just now), involves a
reader working backwards through a text on a voice-over.
CS. - 10/29/05 17:54:58 EDT
(another 'tentative' excerpt)
script and video title: LACANIAN STORY
On the second night of no noise from down the beach, 'whoever it was' thought
hard about a story and the story thought hard about 'whoever it was'.
In the first instance, a polar bear goes swimming, but won’t come back! The
elephant’s gone and a mouse with painful ankles talks to a crow. Large
footprints fill with water. Looking towards the shore, the mouse turns.
‘I worry about that bear!’
Mr Crow insists, the bear will come back.
‘Polar bears always come back dripping, steamy, tail wagging.’
A pause
A mouse shifting from one ankle to the next.
‘I’d rather be in bed.’
‘Tucked up, with just ears showing.’
‘A mouse in bed, high tide and no crows and seagulls in the third script!’
Forced into conversation, Mr Crow refers to mention of
pauses-for-collaboration in the second text.
‘There’s nothing like the sound of of the sea when you’re lying in bed.’
Mr Crow refers to ‘a closing the garage door moment’.
‘Lots of thoughts all in one, a soft wind from the Sahara, never felt before,
a Berlin wall falling down moment ...’
A very small seagull is critical of a drift ‘which was supposed to be the
third script for a third video called ‘Lacanian Children’s Story’ ...
Lucky - 10/14/05 15:19:46 EDT
She don't do it!
Candelaria III - 10/11/05 15:22:22 EDT
Hidey ho ! Crumbling crow Stricktly Speaking.
CS. - 10/07/05 05:44:15 EDT
(excerpt)
‘Out Of Character’
Each sequence is small, each one pauses in a collaboration across script and
video. It seems, I should let go of the possibility of a story or the story
betweeen forms. Breeze, crow, viewer, script, video. A black bird with specs,
cloud cover, two sticks, splints, nesting out of season.
Surprised by seeming valorization in description of art as work, I email
Belgrade gallery. Email is ‘out of character’.
It happens after the sentence ‘Look at the spider’. Three letters , part of
the set, deep down, at the back of throat, almost a mannerism.
Beyond the mannerism, a painting bothers me. Pinned to my bedroom wall
following an exhibition, I find ways to look at it, fearing I’ll never look
at it again when it’s put away. And all this begins to seem unending: after
pointing a video camera in some direction, there’s a list. The list includes
a crow, then a mannerism and a painting seen from my bed.
Dictator - 10/05/05 14:56:27 EDT
Because I say so!!! It's a secret what I say.
Daphne - 10/05/05 14:52:15 EDT
Better find some sticks in the sand to tape her ankles to.
CS. - 10/04/05 17:54:21 EDT
mmmmm .... fortunately no reference to 'excommunication', but the reference
which sticks throws up another Gallagher which I should have read. It seems
to me that a work of art pushes further towards a real than literature
(Lacan/Joyce). Closer to democracy than any politics, all museums are
pathetic when none of the joins are showing! However, if narrative and place
(ref. to Badiou) sometimes pose a question, then narrative adheres to the
real of distant shores. The real erodes nostalgia!
M - 10/04/05 14:24:16 EDT
sad for some, glad that salty liquid could be put to use. It's all so
pathetic.
shrell - 10/04/05 12:25:00 EDT
it takes me to the sand. it's unlike the tape which might be used to grow
(summarizing) the (broken) parts together. funny how tape would not stick
after getting in contact with water (as the medium which 'helps' understand
what is effectively non-digitized) whereas sand (Chris, there is no
referencing to your last name from my part) sticks with the help of a liquid.
the screen will in both instances work when wet: to write in the sand (sexy
ankles) as well as crystalized, vertically installed.
CS. - 10/02/05 16:24:14 EDT
M. where does this thought take you?
M - 10/02/05 15:24:55 EDT
what if her ankles were broken?
CS. - 10/02/05 18:04:50 EDT
The mouse shines smoking a cigarette, cool in an evening breeze. Looks down
at her ankles, sockless, tells her story.
Says ‘It’s all about up there, down here ... ’
‘Neptune, elephant out of sorts, distant mouse with sexy ankles ... , ‘
‘digression, when a script can’t be sustained.’
‘Following, Benjamin, just a little for the moment, some kind of
deconstruction starts with the process of making a video. I don’t know when
or how this happens, but let’s say, getting involved with something as showy
as video involves getting involved with the sum of the parts. A script
perhaps, a script which sticks. A script with a cast who never make it up the
beach. A scrriptwriter without collaborators. So, the video exists outside of
the script and the text exists outside of two videos.’
‘Is this interesting? The idea of a story persists, based on two lines at the
start of a text called ‘CHILDREN’S STORY’, but the angle changes with video.
One moment, I’m down on the beach, nervous with apprehension, next, somewhere
else the viewer is absent. There’s this suggestion. We are transported on a
wing and a prayer! One moment, we’re at sea level, next we’re looking down on
the event, only we’re looking up at slot machine binoculars bobbing in the
wind. Only first, we see a crow sitting not far from the ‘viewer.’’
CS. - 09/20/05 16:46:54 EDT
Next might come another excerpt or someone else can refer to another project,
but, if it has to be another excerpt, I prefer to move on a little, leaving
holes, room for a mouse to shine. Neptune came as surprise!
shrell - 09/29/05 01:26:25 EDT
Real as what with the re-cognizing of absence/presence certainly lends a hand
to research, and progressively sure, the Thing 'therefore' (no speculation)
and Neptune 'in there' ("now you can see it now you can't" -- i
LOVE that). Symbolic shan't be the Imaginary to become Real in order to ask
for an alternative to this mammoth/Thing.
CS. - 09/28/05 16:46:18 EDT
(shrell) at some stage, we might debate the usefulness or accuracy of these
distinctions. Interestingly, Zizek equates traditionalism, modernism and post
modernism with Lacan's Imaginary, Symbolic and Real. Badiou refers to
romantic, didactic and classical phases in twentieth century art, linking the
latter to an alliance between psychoanalysis and the contemporary work of art
(see Lac. Ink 24/5)
shrell - 09/28/05 16:26:45 EDT
well there's the q. whether the decisions are based on a concept (once
brought to a finish being described as 'conceptual') or the decisions are
conceptual per se, leading us, throughout an approx. "open source",
to recognize the work as being post-conceptual (which is a more contemporary
way of describing the process, i.e. 'a set of conceptual decisions'). i will
have to reflect on your q. it is certainly challenging. greetings.
CS. - 09/28/05 16:12:20 EDT
Shrell, the appearance of the mammoth is followed by sequence with the mouse.
These sequences involve text and video, which invariably change the direction
of 'a story'. At some stage, the work is finished and may be seen as a
'conceptual piece'. 'Talking' online about a set of decisions influences the
outcome.
Are you suggesting, there is no such thing as an alternative to this
mammoth/Thing?
shrell - 09/28/05 15:22:59 EDT
From what i gather then, 'Children's Story' is not a conceptual piece but
proceeds on -> a set of conceptual decisions?
shrell - 09/28/05 15:27:16 EDT
oops, a little too late with my q. upon q. for Daphne - sorry.
shrell - 09/28/05 15:25:25 EDT
Maybe a replacement? it was rather CS' last line as such, put in brackets,
giving me the shivers. i need a towel, mais oui-
CS. - 09/28/05 15:17:09 EDT
This work was conceived (and proceeds) as a collaboration, live and
virtually, so there are references to the excerpt below, here and there.
There are 'conversation fragments' on the symposia and messageboard which
(only) sometimes seem to underpin something in a video script called
'Children's Story'. A preoccupation with the concept of 'jouissance' leads to
the sentence 'Beset with jouissance ... .'
If jouissance sometimes finds expression in (the Lacanian notion of) 'the
Thing', the sequence is elaborated to include mammoth/analyst ... . So, the
mouse makes the mammoth bearable (provides some distraction, spirits him away
...)
Daphne - 09/28/05 12:57:58 EDT
What's the alibi?
CS. - 09/26/05 04:40:58 EDT
"The mammoth, dripping wet, about to walk up the beach, can be a long
dead analyst, in my dream. Long dead, but not that long! An analyst with a
sexy mouse 'in tow'.
Here, some qualification, some deliberation. In the video called 'Children's
Story', mammoth and mouse need not be to scale! In the 'adult version' of
this children's story, there's a sequence with 'a naked mouse'. A singular
mouse with dripping mammoth, out of shot.
What shall we say? Beset with jouissance, the mammoth delivers an alibi. Now
you see him, now you don't! ..."
(excerpt, seemingly from another collaborative film script)
Mister Dandy - 09/25/05 16:44:56 EDT
I am.
Mister - 09/25/05 16:40:55 EDT
Is it me, yes of course. It's a fine day to walk to the shops. What more do
you want?
- 09/25/05 14:58:27 EDT
No, Mister wants to say he's not sure where he is
- 09/25/05 14:24:26 EDT
what a flop.... Mister has nothing to say
CS. - 09/22/05 17:12:21 EDT
it seems quite a slow conversation ...
Mister - 09/21/05 16:26:16 EDT
I don't know.
shrell - 09/20/05 21:01:27 EDT
Mister, are you there?
no name? is that you?--
shrell - 09/20/05 20:54:50 EDT
sit down have a drink.
CS. - 09/19/05 17:46:27 EDT
B. talks of resistance to art's subservience to analysis, but is there room
in this 'art and Lacan symposia' for art?
Alongside terms like 'recognition', 'phobias', gender, someone asks a
question which can't be answered. So, we start with fidelity to a scary
drama?
- 09/19/05 16:22:24 EDT
so it is a Mister you are not recognizing...
Mister - 09/19/05 15:29:11 EDT
And plenty of phobias
CS. - 09/19/05 08:07:22 EDT
There's no name and I'm not averse to guessing, but think guessing involves a
throw of the dice?
maria - 09/18/05 19:22:04 EDT
so you recognize he/she or you don't?
CS. - 09/18/05 12:10:54 EDT
Isn't this the way of (a Lacanian) drama?
lucy - 09/18/05 04:29:42 EDT
no wonder you felt it coming - the drama is exploding CS - with you not
recognizing she/he whom you are supposed to recognize
- 09/17/05 14:42:57 EDT
It's suprising that you don't recognize me.
CS. - 09/16/05 16:11:58 EDT
'toute revolution est un coup de des'
Us? - 09/16/05 15:25:16 EDT
We are playing dice by the merchant.
CS. - 09/14/05 15:59:22 EDT
Am working on the second of two films to be shown together (in an exhibition
space). This second video creeps closer to narrative and may be called 'Le
Désordre du Moment' or 'The Mammoth Looks Out Of The Bathroom Window At Mice
Holding Torches On The Tideline' ...
If I have to market the work as an installation sometime soon, the work
squeezes itself somehow between 'narrative' and 'adult sensibilities' ...
M. Nevertheless, your question might have been aimed at previous message!?
M... - 09/12/05 14:42:46 EDT
What are you doing?
CS. - 08/14/05 16:29:21 EDT
yes, but if following Lacan, the (subject of the) unconscious<> the
political and following Plato, the interests of the state is at odds with the
interests of 'poetry', then, (as artists) we find our way to the dilemma
implied by Badiou's assertion; 'It is better to do nothing ... ... '(?)
maria - 08/12/05 22:59:50 EDT
gw - that is a good answer
guess who - 08/12/05 20:24:11 EDT
as subjects of the unconscious
CS. - 08/07/05 17:07:18 EDT
Unfortunately messages get lost on a site like this, but it would be good to
breathe some life into a site which began as a premise of some kind. Badiou's
recent stuff, especially his paper in Lac. Ink 24. makes interesting reading
for anyone involved with contemporary art. At the end of his 'Affirmations
Manifesto', Badiou challenges artists to begin to make new sense of a
relationship with the market place. Could this site be a place where there's
some response to Badiou's 'call?
For a start we might need to begin to look at what Badiou is actually saying.
In the last sentence of his manifesto, Badiou writes: ''It is better to do
nothing than to work officially in the visibility of what the West declares
to exist'.
My question is, how can artists respond to 'Badiou's challenge'? Lacan says
'the unconscious is political' ... ... so, do artists respond as artists or
politicians?
Lola - 08/04/05 16:01:21 EDT
Goody gum drops for you..
CS. - 07/21/05 17:20:22 EDT
Yesterday saw film by Theo Angelopoulos called 'The Weeping Meadow'. Strong
resonances of Tarkovsky and reference (I thought) to a contemporary Antigone.
It seems, there's no resite from suffering, in her case. However, this is the
first part of a trilogy, so more to come! The use of music is surprising and
visually the film is very beautiful (and just out on dvd). Would recommend a
case of ouzo if you are going to watch this film event!
A - 07/19/05 12:55:20 EDT
Because she's stupid.
a - 07/19/05 12:40:12 EDT
And why should she go back there to the land of dust/?
locky - 07/12/05 16:01:17 EDT
Thats my kinda song
CS. - 07/08/05 12:28:46 EDT
Helen, it sounds as if you should relate your experience ...
However, if a (new media) artist depends on the praise of others, then the
work perhaps moves in the direction of the sensibility of others. But if
desire is always the desire of the Other and the work of art depends on
(even) a (small) subjectivity linked to desire, then the artist remembers
those small moments, rather like Malarmé's swan from long ago. This is a
crappy answer. The question could be, why, when and how should an artist be
taken 'seriously'?
helen - 07/08/05 08:15:14 EDT
Are the art institutions taking students working in new media (internet art,
digital film ....) seriously?
CS. - 07/04/05 04:14:18 EDT
Melody and drone seem such a dry song, and was hoping symposia could be a
place to 'talk' about Badiou's 'fourth way' for the contemporary work of art
(Affirmations Manifesto, 'Symptom' text). Am working on text and video for
Vienna show (possibly). At the end of a set of narrative propositions prior
to something more collaborative, wrote:
>FINALLY, the text depends on the process of making a video. A
prescription which begins with accumulations which afterwards amount to a
text. Walking once a week after so many weeks, the text is long enough to
take too long to read. Script, collaboration and video, seem a ‘round about
process’. If I say, the point is not so much text and video, but process, I’d
be turning process into products. If there aren’t products without a market,
then the market sometimes seems an endearing symptom or sign of lack (!?)<
Melody - 06/14/05 05:14:28 EDT
Irvine, the tanpura is an instrument in Indian music which provides the
'drone', a repeated background sound accompanying melody ...
Irvine - 06/12/05 00:09:44 EDT
He likes bread and butter. He likes toast and jam. That's what her baby feeds
him, cuz he's her lovin man!
CS. - 06/06/05 07:48:12 EDT
s/s. Is there critique hiding away in your 'name calling'? The symposia, I
think, in part was set up to provide space for art talk, a place for artists
to talk from. When put alongside talk which has to do with mental health,
politics and post Lacanian work, art talk may seem a precious notion. I like
your insert, 'nociferous miasma', but 'art talk' inevitably goes 'off the
rails' approaching narrative, in this instance. So, a licentious site, if art
has licence in these product strewn times. In the Four Fundamental Concepts
of P, Lacan suggests this licence has some bearing on castration. With
castration, we might assume the norms of polis and the exclusion of
'nociferous miasma' (whatever this really means!)
selfserver - 06/05/05 15:12:47 EDT
O Chris-tone-dumb what would jersey do without you? your such a
self-contrived fuzz-blower. art and Lacan: nociferous miasma
CS. - 06/04/05 19:28:14 EDT
Pasting an excerpt on this site is posting a fragment. A fragment of an
ongoing text and ongoing work. The text is a small part of ongoing work and
the act of pasting something here is quickly superceded by both text and
work.
However, posting something ‘this way’ is not an arbitrary gesture, even if
I’m not sure what this gesture is. Working on a text coincides with a stills
and video process and all three are part of the continuum, which includes
other work. Badiou dislikes projects!
Despite Badiou, the next text sequence rubs up against the possibility of
narrative (and video narrative). If the narrative includes ‘fancy dress’, it
may be linked to Jo Beuys’ famous coyote performance, called ‘America Loves
Me’ (I think). If there’s a subtext to a crowd of subtexts, then it has to do
with a confluence of local and virtual ‘site specifics’. Both instances can
feel lonely.
CS. - 06/01/05 14:59:19 EDT
CS. - 06/01/05 14:58:11 EDT
excerpt from ongoing work:
7. SLEEPING
Unless paid to continue sometime later, I give up reworking old text. Working
afterwards on a ‘script’ for a film - which will never be a film in a
conventional sense - I discount versions of a dream, as if the dream
consitutes new material.
I take a walk on the beach and worry about descriptions of location. How sea
level be ‘up in the clouds’. The dream unfolds regardless of my inclinations
or the inclinations of two. I should stop referring to dreams!
What can I say? Walking is painstaking. I tease sentences around stills.
Proposition a film. A second sentence can be put to music? ‘The Marriage of
Figaro surprising on the beach.‘ Two sentences then in seven weeks!
If I can’t carry on dreaming my way towards a ‘film script’, is there another
option? Thoughts of collaboration again? Two dreaming one instead of one
dreaming two?
I’ve probably lost very first text referred to at start of second version of
online Antigone’s Plaster. This short, three month text was prompt for a
series of short, unanswered letters. I wonder about free standing paragraphs.
Paragraphs, not poems, ‘Pounding’ reworks strategy of prompts. Propositions
not prompts ...
Proposition for a film and a bit more! With reference to a text which follows
a ‘lost one’. Telling a story which includes unread poetry of letters. Lost
love, zoo and Hugos on the beach. Three never to be written parts. Video as
performance and supplement, painting as hole ... ....
jacqs - 05/21/05 00:07:14 EDT
Hi
ShivaShamim - 05/28/05 04:20:22 EDT
hi! Eve r(y)One
CS. - 05/22/05 16:12:48 EDT
Is there another verse?
O yes - 05/10/05 14:26:22 EDT
a song !
CS. - 05/09/05 18:58:11 EDT
Irvine, this sounds like a song ...
Irvine - 05/09/05 01:29:49 EDT
i like bread and butter i like toast and jam that's what my baby feeds me cuz
i'm her loving man
CS. - 05/02/05 11:06:20 EDT
(for Antonia) In his Handbook of Inaesthetics’, Alain Badiou writes (p.105),
Mallarmé (c), for whom the very act of the poem consists in bringing about the
existence of an object (swan, star, rose ...), an object whose arrival
imposes its own termination.
CS. - 04/21/05 16:58:19 EDT
At the risk of sounding 'me-ist' (Badiou ref.), I would like to persist with
Badiou, despite much noted 'reconstructed prose' (Lacaniano). Badiou, much in
evidence (LI 24/ 25, audio), poses questions which shouldn’t be ignored,
despite risks attached to first time readings!
For Badiou, twentieth century art (didactic, romantic, psychoanalytic) is
torn between different masters. Proposing, the work of the art is now
contrary to the values of the market place, Badiou works on an ongoing
manifesto. For the artist, perhaps: ‘It is better to do nothing than to work
officially in the visibility of what the West declares to exist’. (LI. p.109)
However, consciously or unconsciously, wary of art’s subservience to
psychoanalytic mastery, Badiou slips towards Lacan’s fourth register, the
‘sinthome’. JA Miller describes the ‘sinthome’ as symptom and fantasme. And,
in ‘S(x)’, describes the ‘objectivity’ of the symptom (p.4). An objectivity
and persistence linked to mastery.
Quite recently, it seems to me, there was a moment of messageboard
brilliance, when Terry 1. referred to Badiou’s ‘therapeutic philosophy’. A
manifesto and axioms, piled up (as Walter Benjamin might say), discretely -
like the ‘sinthome’, part symptom (masterly, mastering), part fantasme. Long
live the symptom, long live the fantasme!!
pierre boulez - 04/21/05 12:14:00 EDT
leave me out of this !
lacaniano - 04/21/05 12:24:24 EDT
all the turn crisis there are more form
all the reserve of paranoid... line... most adventures... berio, nono, pierre
boulez
it all started at a gallery opening where the Phallus of the artist's work (a
painting) was said to have "circumscribed the penis" (as a pun on
circumcise) maybe an additional rapport would be the origin of the world,
which Lacan possessed. but the central role of the penis as an art object
deserves reflection, cannot be denied, however if only by its absence, it
appears. The Phallus as the criteria of esthetic appeal, fulfillment. as an
art object, the circumcision is a symbol of fulfillment and therefore the
Lacanian penis, without its foreskin, becomes one with the Phallus. and as
Derrida took great pleasure in announcing often to his afternoon seminar: Le
Phallus n'est pas le penis ! i think it was a reference to a Magritte...by
the way have you seen "the Rape" by Magritte? now there's
castration and very much the contrairey to Phallus ... deleuze, guattari,
madam phallus... i can destroy this form of paranoid... for... not
residents...appears for the great artist glenn branca....criteria of
dissonance... for the rape...i think thath all the language are stupid...
isteric derivation... residents... that californian target... not exorcism...
math
lacaniano - 04/21/05 12:16:42 EDT
krisis
all the form of isteric
Jessica K. Anderson from Montana - 04/17/05 15:22:19 EDT
Hi, I just wanted to talk to someone, about exorcism?
fdr drive - 04/17/05 14:42:02 EDT
Cs --- where did you paste this question format from? if Big Brother wouldn't
mind...I thought about why Magritte's painting was castration, rather than
Phallic Joussance and partly because it's grotesque, leaving a pit in my
stomach (that may be personal), but also because it leaves no room for a man
(that's hetero) and therefore smacks of unfulfillment, sheer emptiness while
masked(sic)in the semblance of (mock)satisfaction. it's the esthetic of a
grotesque gaping hole.
CS. - 04/16/05 17:12:17 EDT
Thanks Lac. Ink for downloadable Badiou and thanks particularly for the more
recent version of the journal. Badiou’s texts work for me in small chunks, so
too the lecture. Although, am still processing a Badiou banquet, I sometimes
feel uncomfortable with his ‘axiomatic affirmations’, but having worked my
way through Lac. Ink 24/25, might want to start questioning Badiou’s notion
of art servicing psychoanalysis. This is reference to one of three art
categories en route to an unknowable fourth. My questioning begins with just
one assertion lifted from meticulous arguement. The notion that art often
becomes subservient when linked to psychoanalysis. I will begin at an ending and
begin to work my way back, in small chunks (in time!).
When Badiou makes his claim, does his claim refer to post Lacanian
thresholds, be they pure, applied or conversant with the late Lacan of the
‘sinthome’? Does Badiou step ‘less consciously’ towards the ‘sinthome’ - with
the work of art, which is neither didactic, romantic or psychoanalytic? When
JA Miller informs us that late Lacan takes us beyond the safe places of
structure, is philosophy already lost in a world safe only for latter day
artists with slight Irish accents, white sticks, symptom and ‘phantasme’?
Towards what might be implied by the ‘sinthome’, we seem to have moved far
beyond reliance on Beckett’s modernism ...
- 04/14/05 15:57:50 EDT
you have to move on
you will find some thig better
CS. - 04/11/05 17:54:50 EDT
Magritte's image superimposes a woman's torso on a woman's face, but the
title suggests superimposed (doubled up) phallic jouissance: Woman (doubly)
the subject of phallic pleasure.
But Magritte's super cool imagery is at odds with the title and 'the phallic
order'. For this painter, possibly, dispassionate art goes somewhere else.
Somewhere in Sem.X1, Lacan refers to an artist's ability to 'elude the term
castration'. When art is driven and has to do with the Drive, Magritte's
title, also, possibly, implies an artist's transgression.
fdr drive - 04/11/05 09:56:21 EDT
|circumcision" i erred, is not a symbol of fulfillment, but an erect
circumcised penis is. (please excuse the error in the entry below)
fdr drive - 04/11/05 09:54:16 EDT
cs- it all started at a gallery opening where the Phallus of the artist's
work (a painting) was said to have "circumscribed the penis" (as a
pun on circumcise) maybe an additional rapport would be the origin of the
world, which Lacan possessed. but the central role of the penis as an art
object deserves reflection, cannot be denied, however if only by its absence,
it appears. The Phallus as the criteria of esthetic appeal, fulfillment. as
an art object, the circumcision is a symbol of fulfillment and therefore the
Lacanian penis, without its foreskin, becomes one with the Phallus. and as
Derrida took great pleasure in announcing often to his afternoon seminar: Le
Phallus n'est pas le penis ! i think it was a reference to a Magritte...by
the way have you seen "the Rape" by Magritte? now there's
castration and very much the contrairey to Phallus ...
CS. - 04/10/05 16:00:27 EDT
Fdr - References to castration in psychoanalysis might often be references to
'symbolic castration', but you seem to want to refer to a process of
imagining/symbolising the real. However, how does your question have to do
with an 'art and Lacan symposia'?
f(drdrive)oreskin - 04/10/05 10:29:01 EDT
does Lacnanian theory of the Phaallus go into the willfull mutilation of
penis flesh? is circumciosion related to castration complex?
CS. - 04/08/05 18:28:01 EDT
Well, I'm writing from old Europe, so your 'humour' is a bit lost on me,
however, it seems to me we may have get beyond names to begin to formulate
something to say
fdr drive - 04/08/05 04:10:22 EDT
depneding where your headed Hudson Pkwy or Lincoln Tunnel (if you don't mind
Jersey)or the Hudson river; and yours? CompuServe Lewis Caroll: do we need a
boat?
CS. - 04/06/05 09:26:21 EDT
'fdr drive' - is there no way passed your 'nom de plume'?
fdr drive - 04/06/05 08:08:57 EDT
art & lacan. the Phallus in figurative art as circumscribing the penis, a
symbol (the Phallus)circumscribing or englobing a "related" object:
like the representation of "home" englobing the related object of a
house(good example?) anyway, the idea that came up was more than the initial
play on words (circumscribe or circumcise the penis), but a question about
the circumcised penis as a SYMBOL of phallic jouissance as opposed to the
uncircumcised (natural penis?) as NOT-A-SYMBOL of anything. Apparently the
circumcision is the trace of castration, which distorts the unconscious
Phallic symbolism. is anything in this?
Antonia - 04/05/05 22:01:22 EDT
I think the Badiou event was wonderful, very nicely staged against the work
of La Chapellier - a room... so interesting all that Badiou said about the
subject of art - it was broadcast live so you can listen to it - in the
events page
CS. - 04/05/05 18:00:05 EDT
Antonia, how was the Badiou event?
Antonia - 04/02/05 16:20:18 EDT
the first scene took place at an opening in Soho and (she) is addressed as
"someone", again as a she, she adds "..." , next we have
"along night in 'her' place" ... are you saying someone, she and
her are the same person?
CS. - 04/02/05 07:25:24 EDT
where is this conversation which begins with BARricades of May '68 and
Lacan's BARred subject leading? Antonia, want to know who 'HER' is? ('leading
to along night in her place'). PS. 'Circumscribed' rythmms with 'proscribed'?
fdr drive - 04/02/05 05:25:52 EDT
Antonia-- don't know what I answered,don't think anyone did, but 1/2 tipsy
theconversation had something to do with (Beefeater)gin and (Shweppes
indian)tonic, circumcision and tantric meditationleading to along night in
her place we touched upon the symbolism of the Phallus inscribed in the
remaining penis flesh. postcastration-complex-Phallic-distortion due to
circumcision.
Antonia - 04/02/05 11:27:22 EST
"circumscribed to" doesn't it mean "utterly dependent
on/of"?
Art fink - 04/01/05 02:46:51 EST
if "the penis" were a magazine and the Phallus an avid reader, I
would understand Google's query as SUBSCRIBE TO the penis, but
"circumscribe to" the penis -- what would Google mean?
Cs- she may be a breed of Latter Day Situationists working the Soho area, as
Guy Debord wrote "...as virtual actors these artists create ambiances in
public-life to incite against conforming to social norms..."
Antonia - 02/21/05 11:40:24 EST
let's do what Google does... did you mean:
the Phallus in this artist's work usually tends TO CIRCUMSCRIBE TO the
penis" ?
so what did you answer?
fdr drive - 02/20/05 02:59:12 EST
at an opening in Soho someone told me "the Phallus in this artist's work
usually tends to circumscribes the penis", she added softly," but
not always."
CS. - 02/27/05 16:28:25 EST
Not in this text, I think, but I'm sure you would find Badiou references to
the situationists (if not Debord) online.
ps. did Debord claim authorship of SI.?
Art fink - 02/27/05 15:28:25 EST
does Badiou talk about guy debord as author of the anti-capitalistic
"Situationist" movement in post-War France (maybe europe)?
CS. - 02/27/05 05:04:27 EST
Alain Badiou's work is contemporary and Lacan was around when Paris students
began digging up the boulevards in search of the beach beneath. In
'Television', there's a transcript of Lacan's meetings with students at the
time. However, Badiou's comments address the position of the artist today.
There is an analysis which sees the Second World War are the seminal event in
cultural life and if this analysis makes sense, then, perhaps, the
situationists constitute one of the footnotes - in making sense of desire.
Lacanian desire is possible because limits are proscribed. Back in '68, Lacan
suggests 'limitless desire' prefaces the discourse of the master. So,
Badiou's manifesto accomodates this history of desire, but poses a question
which has to do with the desire of the artist, now. The text referred to is
in Lac. Ink 24/25.
Art fink - 02/27/05 02:42:51 EST
those are the post-Guy Debord "situationists" who thought it
"better to do something" Unless the Badiou Manifesto predates the
text of this Guy. when was the badiou written?
CS. - 02/26/05 09:06:04 EST
Post May '68 there was reference to creativity and dissidence 'co-opted' by
capitalism, however, I think Badiou refers to the post -situationist, desire
of the artist, when commerce subverts the semblance of an art world with
simulations and 'plus-de jouir'. But, perhaps, Badiou's 'better to do
nothing' amounts to nostagia for the romantic Thing, while the 'object a'
slips by while we're not looking ...
CS. - 02/25/05 04:14:27 EST
Antonia, I take it, Badiou is saying less is more in this instance, but the
manifesto turn is reminiscent of artists like Tristan Tzara over eighty years
ago. Can we say the spirit of Dada is accomodated in museums which also
provide markers of what 'the west declares to exist'? Should we say, Badiou
takes up a position which addresses an issue which was pertinent, (twice)
before in Paris, May '68?
Antonia - 02/24/05 16:16:20 EST
CS - "do nothing...." Wow, that's something to bring up at the
Badiou conference
CS. - 02/24/05 02:15:05 EST
At the end of his 'Manifesto of Affirmationism', Alain Badiou sets the tone
for a contemporary artist (and for a reinvention of art), when he writes: 'It
is better to do nothing than to work officially in the visibility of what the
West declares to exist' (Lac. Ink 24/25) ...
no one - 02/22/05 16:58:26 EST
isn't there a doing that does for the artist's potential being... or even
lack in being?
- 02/22/05 12:52:47 EST
you can't chose to be or not to be an artist. that is not some work.
Paul - 02/22/05 12:09:00 EST
like to be or not to be.... The woman, The psychoanalyst?
Antonia - 02/22/05 12:08:17 EST
Let's say the question is, to be or not to be... The artist
CS. - 02/22/05 02:48:17 EST
To be an artist or not to be an artist, contemporary preoccupation with the
likes of ER. reworked by DH's assistants turns Jo Buey's 'art pill' into
Lacan's cogito as slow motion thought and an adrenaline fix(!?) Haven't seen
the show, but saw interview with the artist after first night. Damien Hirst
said he used to enjoy giving some of his work away, but now this was
problematic! I'm not sure why this comment seems newsworthy?
Antonia - 02/22/05 01:22:15 EST
CS - it is an inexplicable understanding - a shakesperean one - between
"art and Lacan" and the messageboard...
CS. - 02/21/05 19:25:25 EST
Antonia, on the messageboard, the end of a cogito conversation makes me think
of lines from Hamlet and, 'on this side', your description of Gagosian show
includes 'skulls hang on the wall'...
Antonia - 02/20/05 00:16:24 EST
there's still the components of a pharmacy in the actual Damian Hirst
Gagosian show - pills, syringues in action… again there's hospital rooms - a
hand holds a scalpel, an injured face bleeds… faces turn sick, skulls hang on
the wall…
CS. - 02/19/05 02:42:05 EST
(generic state of contemporary art) So much for my readymade! Of course, some
time ago Damien Hirst exhibited a pharmacy, now has show at New York,
Gagosian.
CS. - 02/17/05 17:18:22 EST
musing what might be meant by 'generic state of contemporary art' I can
across two paragraphs from JA Miller (which come from paper which makes no
reference to contemporary art):
'Previously I developed the other aspect, that a woman waits for someone to
speak to her. This is why Lacan speaks of "to believe in a symptom
there" and at the same time "to believe a woman is there." It
is a speaking symptom calling to be heard, to be understood. In order to have
a woman as symptom - the only way to love her - one must hear her, one must
decipher her.'
'When the gentlemen are not ready, when they do not have time, or when they
are in front of their computers - another symptom to decipher, another
symptom which speaks - or they are deciphering the symptoms of their clients,
well, the women go into analysis.'
gb - 02/16/05 14:28:17 EST
why not? even that is possible view of that state.
cold - 02/16/05 11:02:16 EST
nothing "generic" is the best, right?
In any case what comes to mind when I think generic is medicine - the cheaper
ones
gropiusbreakfast - 02/16/05 08:27:54 EST
yes. that is very interesant poin of view. i like to read it in thet way.
what do you think about generic state of contemporary art today?
Virginia - 02/16/05 00:16:05 EST
gb - if you are speaking from a metaphorical point of view the girls altered
state could well evoke Lacan's non-existant woman, bound to an Other - Other
not only to man but to herself .
Virginia - 02/16/05 00:14:06 EST
gb - if you are speaking from a metaphorical point of view the girls altered
state could well evoke Lacan's non-existant woman, bound to an Other - not
only to man but to herself .
gb - 02/15/05 15:15:08 EST
i think that they are typical. think of unifom state of global society, .this
girls can be kind of a uniformed plurality, collective monolog where everyone
talking and nobody listen....
v - 02/14/05 09:16:51 EST
the girls - their bellies sticking together - are atypical
gb - 02/14/05 07:19:24 EST
and if i 'm atypical? what makes typical?
virgi - 02/12/05 20:02:57 EST
atypical is non typical - when it comes to cells non typical may make you
sick
gropius breakfast - 02/12/05 17:59:06 EST
what is "atypical"? o better : what is "typical" today?
virginia - 02/08/05 18:22:17 EST
the ferocity of what nowadays they call "atypical"? like in
atypical cells
cold-shoulder - 02/06/05 22:21:42 EST
there is some ferocity in there - with the siamese I mean
- 02/05/05 01:57:14 EST
I wish I was not the only one in this electronic symposium. I feel lonely. Do
you believe in coincidences? Why does that word sound so much like
controversey?? What's with the weird simese twins?? what does it mean?
Nothing? Everything? What is this? If so, Consider I Heart Huckabees. Is
Lacan involved? ANybody out there? Film is art. Right?
stoollife - 02/02/05 07:12:56 EST
deny with editorial abuse, but you've got bigger problems than the brown
headed nemesis
admin - 02/01/05 18:54:24 EST
CS - The one on left (hen) is now working...
CS. - 02/28/05 05:25:11 EST
The above icons (running figure etc.) now link to an ALL NEW VERSION OF
WEBSITE (antigonesplaster.com). The one on left (hen) isn't working
CS. - 02/24/05 04:59:52 EST
s - It seems I should say it again in some other way. Something Jacques Alain
Miller refers to there being two subjects: the subject of the signifier and
the subject of jouissance. Your writing seems to involve so much pleasure
that you neglect the question addressed to you, but point out, I'm not
immuned to this either!
However, I'm intrigued by your reference to 'the facts' ... 'facts' which
will 'your facts' in your case and 'my facts' in my case.
mr hanky, by confusing lack and penis envy you seem to be confusing real and
symbolic castration
stoollife - 02/18/05 02:42:27 EST
as seen from the crapper: any frustration of the "film making
itself" is the one who lives in his mind,//"Cs"//, or maybe
he's just constipated and needs a plunger to unstick his repressed fantasy
world of what he rights "my problem includes 2 'premises', the 'work of
art' (his own lack and penis-envy) and the "locus of the Other",
which is a real-life mate to employ the missing signifier.
CS. - 02/17/05 19:26:45 EST
PROJECT:
HALF WAY THROUGH A NEVER ENDING PROJECT
A second website follows a first exhibition which hopefully precedes a second
show in another location. Visual processes seem to follow writing and
painting prompts the use of video. If the project somehow starts with text, I
go back to a text called ‘P’. An afterthought called ‘Sequel’ marks a shift
to video
Indications of form cover other 'co-ordinates'. Video includes the idea of
collaborations. When nothing happens, co-ordinates seem reversed and the
project no longer looks like a retroactive shift from text to painting to
video.
How does it sound?
I want to make a film and keep noticing, ‘the film’ makes itself, but while
the film 'keeps making itself' there’s frustration. If there’s any
consistency in a project which includes paintings, archive, video and the
promise of installations, then the consistency includes a premise which works
better as a psychoanalytic premise. The best the work can do, it seems, is
articulate a question which may have some bearing on beginnings in
psychoanalysis.
I want to make a film. To make this film involves collaboration. To help me
make a film, you can read the text which precedes collaboration. You see my
problem straight away! You will see my problem includes two 'premises': the
'work-of-art' and (what Jacques Alain Miller calls) 'the locus of the Other'.
The impasse is a giveaway!
CS. - 02/17/05 19:22:50 EST
Ahead of a new website (see above), I want to try out an excerpt which may be
very raw. The site is nearly ready(?). It includes intro., long narrative (photos
embedded), a sequel and a tricky project description. What follows is 'tricky
project description'. Posting this material is risky. In the first place, I
think it involves knowing much less what I'm doing!
Antonia - 02/16/05 18:46:51 EST
here's two quotes - one of the pieces in this show was "my bed"
https://www.lacan.com/frameXV7.htm
ricky - 02/15/05 18:12:54 EST
does any one no a quate by tracey emin on a piece she made called my bed???
please doen an essy and need a quote asap
CS. - 02/14/05 06:29:42 EST
Should be able to renew website indicated by images above within the next ten
days. The forthcoming version of 'Antigone's Plaster' elaborates a project
which resulted in a show last December.
- 02/12/05 14:24:11 EST
richardbranshawsayshigirls
Antonia - 02/02/05 20:47:02 EST
not that I know of
CS. - 01/20/05 06:07:49 EST
ps. Does anybody know if Jacques Alain Miller's
'L' Autre qui n'existe pas et ses comities d'éthique'
is translated into English?
CS. - 01/20/05 06:02:20 EST
v. - and no, having spoken to A. for a while now via. Lac. Ink, and having
learnt so much from her, that would be impossible!! However, we could use
site to rework Lacanian version of Peter Cook and Dudley Moore? (perhaps, not
so familiar in US?)
CS. - 01/20/05 05:57:18 EST
Antonia, Non non non, 'I is another' is correct for Rimbeau,
v - 01/29/05 21:27:22 EST
what he feels now is "je hais un autre"
Antonia - 01/29/05 21:22:09 EST
CS - hmmm.....you make me sound like a boring teacher,yet isn’t it "Je
suis un autre" ?
CS. - 01/29/05 18:27:59 EST
'Je est un autre'.
Antonia - 01/29/05 12:50:20 EST
CS - "After misquoting Rimbeau, per chance..." So how is the
Rimbaud quote as it should be?
CS. - 01/28/05 17:26:02 EST
How curious these things are sometimes! After misquoting Rimbeau, per chance
I came across the real thing. 'Je est un autre', I is another.
CS. - 01/28/05 17:27:29 EST
Joy, I've no answer. Fife is a town in Scotland
Joy - 01/28/05 06:52:41 EST
i need help with this quote from the play MACBETH "no cousin, i'll to
fife" what does this quote mean and how does it signify the play.Also
who said the quote. if anyone is there who can help me plz plz plz plz help
me out. i really need it itz about 2:52 am here i need it by 6:00am i have to
go to school. so plz someone help me out.
Antonia - 01/27/05 15:48:21 EST
DFI --->'I': Such a good question and such a good answer
'I' - CS. - 01/27/05 10:11:21 EST
DFI - I think it was Rimbeau who famously said, 'I am anOther.'
DFI - 01/26/05 22:44:59 EST
what happens when i am the subject?
CS. - 01/26/05 02:25:21 EST
Antonia, generally, with exhibitions the artist is missing, but his/her
presence/absence is much part of the contemporary work-of-art. It is the same
with your absence/presence in the life of these sites. With Lacanian work,
surely this question is important. With the unmade bed, the question
'remains'. How can I phrase the question? With Tracey's 'unmade bed', where
is the signifier? (instead of 'unmade bed', I first wrote 'unbed question')
Antonia - 01/25/05 22:05:45 EST
CS - woman is a good example. how come she is a missing signifier... when all
she is, is a signifier.
CS. - 01/25/05 18:22:16 EST
Antonia, of course, beds are beds, but missing signifiers have names too! If
the missing signifier is a woman, we could ask Tracey if women exist?
Antonia - 01/24/05 22:04:27 EST
CS - beds have a name? ??
CS. - 01/22/05 19:22:27 EST
Tracey gives us an unmade bed, not just any old bed, but her unmade bed. If
the artist shows a bed, you might say, the bed's the signifier. But Tracey
Emin shows her unmade bed and we might assume, she's the signifier (and the
person who sleeps in the bed is missing!).
Antonia - 01/22/05 17:41:29 EST
CS - why would you say, with the bed, the signifier is missing? I cannot
follow that one.
Antonia - 01/22/05 17:29:22 EST
CS - why would you say, with regard to Tracy Emin's unmade bed, the signifier
is missing? I cannot follow that one.
CS. - 01/20/05 18:04:20 EST
(re. Tracey Emin's unmade bed) With the bed, you might say the signifier is
missing, and if the signifier is missing, what does this say about the gap
between art and the artist?
With contemporary art, perhaps, this gap (art/artist) is crucial, post (or
neo) pop-art.
When the artist gets into bed, she prevents Art rolling over onto
capitalism's 'plus de jouir', which dampens the art object as 'object a'.
CS. - 01/09/05 18:14:26 EST
Antonia, to somehow equate art with the signifier, surely equates 'it' with
the symbolic, the unconscious or even a little fort-da, but Zizek keeps
reminding us, that the real of packaging clogs up our world, despite Warhol's
ten seconds of the sublime. However, where is your signifier with our Tracey
Emin's unmade bed?
Antonia - 01/08/05 19:12:29 EST
CS - the art object is empty... even if it were full, the fact that it is a
work of art goes against you opening it and consuming the contents, right? So
the difference between the box of Brillo at the supermarket and the
silkscreen version at the gallery is that this last one resembles rather well
the box that is full - produces an effect of trickery... Again the context is
different from the one at a supermarket.
Once more the boxes of Kelloggs Corn Flakes that get introduced as a work of
art ought to look like something other than a bunch of boxes of corn flakes.
The effect the work produces ought to be other than the promise of an
enjoyment that resides in the consumption of the contents of the box... What
the spectator is looking at is not just boxes of corn flakes...
It is to the extent that he knows, not what they are but what they are not,
that he will look at them with a look that differs from the look he offers
them in their more usual environment.
CS. - 01/08/05 18:06:12 EST
Antonia, unless I'm reading too much into what you say, it seems, for you,
Warhol extends the idea(s) of the 'readymade', in this instance, an object
which perhaps resonates for a while in an art environment (it's not a urinal,
pipe, box of brillo!); so, art, as signifier, as something left over (real) -
but evidently, structured like language?
Antonia - 01/06/05 20:29:22 EST
CS - it's easy to see the signifier in the work-of-art in cases where the
signifier is there. Say Andy Warhol's boxes of Brillo - you are not going to
do what the box says about the way you are supposed to clean. Also with the
soup cans, everyone knows he is not supposed to open them,throw water in
there, heat them an eat the contents...
CS. - 01/06/05 17:40:47 EST
In the wake of an exhibition hinted at by icons above, wanting somehow to
connect myself up again to a (spurious) process Gerard Wajcman calls 'the
work-of-the-art', I continue reworking what will be a new post-show website
(with links through images). I used a video camera during this show-event and
(for new website) beneath an image derived from a video sequence indicated by
top left 'still', I include two paragraphs shown below:
On the last day of an exhibition called ‘Helibert’s Cut and Antigone’s
Plaster’, I wrote something like this: ‘I can’t document the show, pointing
my video camera in the direction of video monitors, the work keeps changing.
In fact, I never wanted to ‘document’ anything , but the show as product
‘worries’ an object in place of a subject. With no ending in sight, rework
website between archive and never ending narrative - 'as if' writing book.’
With two ‘excerpts’ as mini scripts for video loops, there now seem to be
three narrative excerpts. If the Antigone script marks the end of the first
part of a text called ‘P’, there were two more parts to ‘P’ and another text
which includes the Helibert script. They seem to mark the process of an
‘unwriteable book’, but to rework an unwriteable text, I have to know what
comes next. Torn between archive and narrative, uncertainty seems more on the
side of archiving ...
CS. - 01/06/05 02:58:14 EST
Antonia, (art similar to the signifier ...?) I want to say yes, because in a
sense Zizek's posits the deadlock of contemporary art. But if the
contemporary work-of-art seems to have to do with a kind of writing which
can't be written, then, there is always the lure of the imaginary - when the
signifier always implies the signified.
In therapy, 'life coaches' use mobile phones clinging onto imaginary
identification, in art, perhaps, video artists begin to make films, but the
real question always seems to have to do with sidelines which can or can't be
written, retroactively. If art can be similar to the signifier, then an
artist has a place to talk from, but that place is never obvious!
Antonia - 01/05/05 02:00:27 EST
question is that this object , if elevated to the dignity of The Thing - the
work of art let's say - is in turn empty... in this the object - work - of -
art is similar to the signifier, in that it can let go ( be emptied ) of its
meaning.
CS. - 01/02/05 17:41:20 EST
Perhaps, I'm missing the point and Lacan's referrence to Heidgger, but the
word means 'clearing', I think.
In the Fragile Absolute (p.20), Zizek writes, 'For Lacan, creative
sublimation and the death drive are strictly correlative: the death drive
empties the (sacred) Place, creating the Clearing, the Void, the Frame, which
is then filled by the object 'elevated to the dignity of the Thing'.
Then, a bit later, after reference to Gerard Wajcman's 'L'object du Siecle',
'The problem is that today, in the double movement of the progressive
commodification of aesthetics and the aesthetification of commodities, a
'beautiful' (aesthetically pleasing) object is less and less able to sustain
the Void of the Thing - so it is as if, the only way to sustain the (Sacred)
Place is to fill it up with trash, with an excremental abject'.
v - 01/02/05 00:21:52 EST
Look for Heidgger and you will find the word "lichtung"
CS. - 12/20/04 18:02:22 EST
Lacanian praxis surely concerns the subject, so perhaps s for subject. Marina,
mentions the German word 'lichtung' on the messageboard. As I don't speak
German, I looked this word up on the net, only to find the Austrian writer,
Peter Handke, who once wrote a play called, 'Offending the Audience'. Handke
has collaborated with Wim Wenders on many film projects, but seems to have
written little, of late, unless they're not translated.
malita - 12/20/04 16:51:05 EST
you call her S for silly?
sw - 12/20/04 15:42:22 EST
What do I know...
Rupert - 12/20/04 12:25:52 EST
sw - have you given in to CS's wish to corner you in the e-mai?
w - 12/18/04 20:56:20 EST
Sleep well.......
Good thigs dont come to characters like you CS.
You must be afraid of me... or disappointed or busy all the usual stuffing I
will suprise myself the day I dont show up anymore. Then I will have some
real friends unlike you. I almost trick myself into feeling sad. . lucky me
their are dead ones I can read who arnt always going to talk about work cause
I am the laziest around I was once called a sloth by an x drudg dealer I earn
high marks.
Is that A spider? Its always nice to know there are bigger idiots than
yourselves huh...?
What help is that though as you can see ive lots of time tto waste sometimes
and yet... I mean to the host with the most, Crown
Crown - 12/18/04 17:27:24 EST
w- how do you e-mail here?
w - 12/18/04 12:22:29 EST
CS. I now know how to email here. Istill think I was tricked though I will
try to do what I can.... email is not live
CS. - 12/17/04 17:15:07 EST
w- Lucy read you had difficulty contacting me - getting a response - then,
being angry when you did - so suggested alternative to emailing me directly
(via above website). Her suggestion has less to do with 'my anxiety' but more
to do with not clogging up this site and messageboard with exclusive
conversations (which get nowhere because they are the kind of conversations
which just possibly get somewhere 'in therapy' - which HAS to be a live
process) .
w - 12/17/04 14:04:18 EST
CS I dont know why she wants me to invite you to the chat except to make you
very anxious ...
I dont know what to think about letters or the sender getting his own message
i must still be a rat in a big mess, like what would...
CS. - 12/16/04 18:41:02 EST
w - I started writing my previous message after your message before last, but
had to break off. If this rat brain is completely lost, there are alter egos
which seem very assertive in almost the same breath!
CS. - 12/16/04 18:24:22 EST
No, slowly something happens with an exhibition or in my case, something
happened with my show (which has just finished). In a week or two, I may feel
differently, but for this artist, the show is punctuation, a pause, stopping,
becoming the viewer. Fading away as a little death, with the end of the
project in sight(?).
So, not too much thinking, not much knowledge and possibly, first inklings of
wanting to reconstitute the website by including something which happens
around the show, as if the show marks something. I have in mind a website
with text punctuated by very small thumbnails! And beyond vague inklings of
form, the return of my anxiety about 'letters arriving at their destination'!
At the end of an essay called Sublimation and Symptom, Franz Kaltenbeck
writes: ' The sinthome invented by Lacan proves the urgency of art'. At
present, it seems to me, that urgency must be linked to particular contexts.
When art is structured like language, then art functions critically - and
through narrative ...
w - 12/16/04 18:07:12 EST
I think this was all one big mistake a rat lost in amaze for a long time
completly confused and blind with its own imagination even though that seems
unlike a rat. Istill dont know whether to believe that email works or whether
to bother a helper. I read about art and therapy and mixed the two up in my
rat brain which took over my own. I wouldnt trust a lacanian anyway ...
Crown - 12/16/04 16:40:25 EST
CS - did you read in the Lacan symposium about your brain slowely bleeding
away from thorns being stuck in it...?
Lucy - 12/16/04 06:04:22 EST
w - invite CS to alive talk in the chatroom https://www.lacan.com/chat.htm
CS - 12/16/04 02:21:44 EST
w. Over and over again, I've stressed this site is limited, but you persist.
You want to know where to find a Lacanian therapist, but as we live
continents apart, I can only suggest you use the internet. Lacanian
therapists are listed on the net in the UK. and Ireland. As for inappropriate
use of this site, I've suggested you can contact me directly via the website
indicated above. You say you don't know how to find a therapist or know how
to use an email address, however, I suggest you need to do what you can - as
this site is no panacea for what troubles you. You can't demand therapy here
and feel abandoned when you take no steps to seek appropriate help.
w - 12/15/04 20:27:49 EST
I already know about Jesus and on and on
w - 12/15/04 20:09:05 EST
Thanks for the tip vicious
Ben - 12/15/04 17:28:22 EST
W, what if you try psycho-drama? Or better still, try Jesus!
w - 12/15/04 12:40:56 EST
i REMEMber being told that silence in the symposiom "I think Knot"
so then I was mislead and now I dont know what to think except wonder why
arnt you responding. Are you sick or too busy or what?
Dont tell me I have to type here alone. What if I am in the midst of some
therapy here and you abandoned me whoever you are? Icant help it if i got
dragged in by the forces of nature into something that is not appropriate
here. So then help me go elsewhere. At least just tell me to stick with what
I have instead of saying I can look here for some support and guidance. I do
have to keep some of my obligations. Or do you not care if I end up in
horrible ends. Cause you havent given me some simple answers I HAVE flailed
on. It makes you happy? Is this that unavoidable sadistic gaze which I did not
experience watching that movie about the factory worker? It was said that the
viewer was left with that option only. Not me so what does that make me? A
crumpled up moth..
What do you think if I would prefer a different analysis, do you thik Im fine
with a caring one that I am reluctant to delve into what I might not be with
one that I believed in more? I thought you miss the real if you just peass up
having to have something in particular.
I thought you wanted to take care of the artist here. What if I really needed
help and maybe you are in a position to help me? I am confused and not
feeling very well and I think you can help me.
Fare thee well{ }= + 8*
What is wsimming around in my head... we cant all order uor thoughts like you
educated ones.
I guess Im not in the club here either and might never be part of the game. I
thought I would learn here now im even correcting the slps. She said You
"WORK" at L> Ink and told me not to call again and hung up on
me. Sweet. Well im not a theoretician so what can I do ?
Whats happening here you say Im sabatoging yet nothing is being said so I
feel the excluded one. Pleased with yourselves? Something about Aragon was
interesting but it wasnt in 11. I dont have that kind of memory. Im here ...
Im better now ready to fight again where do you think I stand now CS./? You
dont have to worry about me ill let you off the hook. i had a sensile ?
You are cruel because you havnt answered my wondering about what you meant
when you said we could work together. Iyou trying to see how far I will go in
being an idiot and the most bothersome supposedly educated pathetic creature
that exists here at this site. You want me to exclude myself it seems.
Teenagers are next to me learning how to chat Im not that different from them
cause I never grew up properly as they say. They are looking forward to
something and I have tricked my own self with your help I think. See I dont
know how to use this site either as you already told me.
Where are you All? Busy or wishing I would go away? Far far far away?
Forever?
CS. What if I needed an analyst like you? Would you help me? If your worried
I'd like an answer. Cause I might get a fever n my brain and dye a death and
be forever in purgatory. I would like to know what kind of disorder you
noticed I have?
Not much is being said arround here after all the compaining. And nobodyn is
helping me, why arnt they in the position to help? It was arough weekend with
those in limbo. Full of creepy suprises, you missed out...
I would like a lacanian though I dont know how to find one?
CS. - 12/12/04 06:29:07 EST
Joan Copjec's paper, 'The Silence of Feminine Jouissance', has some bearing
on this interplay of looking and the gaze. Also for me, especially, Jean
Cocteau's film, 'Orphee'.
Close to the end of an exhibition, there is some relief, that for example the
DVD players have kept looping the video material, but the antithesis of
looking and the gaze that I refer to comes from Seminar 11. Referring to this
material, Joan Copjec writes, Lacan 'emphasizes the way the Other's gaze
destabilizes our reality, causing it to tremble at its base. When the gaze
appears, vision is annihilated'.
So, perhaps, for the artist exhibiting work, there is the moment when the
work is 'lost', a moment when the 'work-of-the-art' (Wadjman) (now) excludes
the artist, torn between looking and the gaze.
w - 12/11/04 16:49:18 EST
Would it be a relief for the artist to disappear with the gaze? CS> Which
arguement are you referring to?
w - 12/10/04 20:58:12 EST
The other worried woman
NOw I understand a place with archives and postings that even I can delete or
change by someone else>. CS> can you explain that to me? I guess one
shouldnt write something here and enyrust to anyone. Is this part of the
world we live in now that might not be Real anymore? The worried woman is
back. Y is that not inclusive of others? You dont answer many of my Questions
that I think are just as inclusive of course not as clever as others?
Is THat a Question addressed to others? Are you a practicing psychoanalyst/?
CS>.?
CS. Is it better not to seek therapy with one that is beloved if the analyst
can not show love Without bringing on psychosis?
CS. - 12/10/04 18:50:19 EST
w - your last message includes a question which can be addressed to others.
Try turning it into a question addressed to others.
w - 12/10/04 18:27:08 EST
I dont think I would know what being inclusive here would look like since I
dont have the depth of understanding I would pose stupid Questions you would
ignore mostly. Or would be a waste of your precious tine. LIke why does the
artist disaoppear witj the gaze?
What ia wrong with positing a question to perfume? CS> I would like to
work together now I DONT KNOW HOW. wHAT DO You suggest?
CS. - 12/10/04 18:22:24 EST
Lacan tries to show desire is a process which may not involve satisfaction or
gratification, unlike the drives which always do. But this description of
desire begins as a description of clinical processes, in other words, this
detachment comes about in the course of therapy as the person 'in therapy'
slowly, slowly, begins a process of detaching himself or herself from the
therapist. What worries me about your messages, W, is your attachment to an
arguement here, an attachment which shadows processes in therapy. In the
course of this 'shadow play', I keep saying to you, I think you must address
these concerns 'in therapy', not here! Not here, because, your concerns
cannot be met here - when a public, virtual site is not the place. Not here,
because your expression shadows the exclusiveness of therapy (at a certain
stage). Even when messages are addressed to others, most messages here and on
the messageboard are inclusive, can include others. Your exclusiveness stops
other communications. I don't want to stay stop to you, but I think you
should take this exclusive communication into a live therapy setting and
start being inclusive here, when you can.
W - 12/10/04 15:46:57 EST
iGUESS MY DESIRE LEADS ME TO FUTILITY
One day the tables will turn
I am not sophisticated like you guys and mow you are going to not answer my
questions thats how you make lots of money.
Mine is not underpaid
CS> You didnt tell me why you are worried or who wants to help me? Thank
her for accepting my call. Courageousn too. Where will the show be before
Xmas? I will go see if I can find something...
I feel like the Goya, and like I am banging my head on the wall almost
because you are tesing me or doing some mean experiments with someone who has
enough trouble. Now i dont even fell like taking care of my chldren, Not able
to bareely take care of myself. AAnd now my imagination is even more lost
mixed up in another twisting story. I think you like it that way CS.? And now
you say I am insulting when all ths is one big mean joke you pulled. So much
for longboats that can fly and your stupid quaint stories. Should I inslt you
or not>>? You can imagine how I feel after exsposing all those words.
I was only joking after you put me on the end of crack the whip. Idont doubt
she is highly skilled and creative. What an I supposed to do now? Idont get
paid at all. And as you said I need therapy. What I am supposed to think when
you leave me all messed up needing more therapy. I need venom to protect
myself you are the ones who wont even answer simple questions meanwhile pulling
me onto furter consumptions or questions that consume me or just ...
CS. - 12/10/04 06:14:20 EST
w- now, what you say is so full of venom and full of assumptions. Without
idealising therapists, please see that you are offending people who are
sometimes underpaid, but highly skilled, creative and courageous in the
positions they take ...
w - 12/09/04 20:25:24 EST
She did not want to help it would seem and not to be truted either s . SO
what else can I do now that you have trapped me here. It is not so funny and
are you really just trashing all my hard work. If that is what it can be
called. Babylonia cry. Thats where I live. I better study my history before I
incriminate myself. There is no place to go now so I guess I will have to do
boring work forever condemned> Luck you mothballs y. She will be crushed
when she runs unto you lungs collapsed. All your faults. Lucy must be on
vacation. Wouldnt it be nice. All dreams shot down by enemy bullets. Not for
you folks. Im hungry and tired. You think I heave reached the deadened end .
i wont even say Bye.
Well I met the viper in the pool of ink she is delightful saays ' you just
cant call here asking all these questions' and told me to go back to the
internet so here i am to bother you> Knew she would be mean I said.
Wouldnt evenhelp uot the lacanians near me earn a peny. Rude almost but so
elegant like my stepmother the current alive one. well what do you think
CS.//?
CS. - 12/09/04 18:00:56 EST
Antonia (if you are about, somewhere!) - I remember some time ago, you
described beautifully, the disappearance of the artist with the advent of the
gaze, and exhibiting surely involves this 'fading'!
CS. - 12/09/04 16:52:19 EST
w- I think jokingly you say, 'I have to resort to sabotage here at this
preety dirty site.' but it seems you don't see, this is exactly what you are
doing. If this is the case, you must excuse times when your messages are
deleted or shortened!
w - 12/09/04 15:25:42 EST
I am alot like those girls in the picture and you allow them. So not to worry
sa say they. I dont balieve she is a dead anyway. Got more important things
to you. That is an oblique re. Not psychosis de amour.
Goodmorning to you all at the symposia time to bebin the intellectual what
did you call it debate. Gooc thind I wasnt accepted . Saved some big bucks
too. No I dont only think about money only when im greedy or needy or plain
too pragmatico. See there ie some kind of prod with the email. Cheaters .
d.b. - 12/08/04 21:47:42 EST
Email not working properly perchance tom. c.s.
w - 12/08/04 20:47:21 EST
WHo wants to help me anyway?
OK then I will look into that.. I guess I have to have Email? I aready am in
therapy but for a long time have wished for a lacanian? Do you think That
would be something to try/? I could call... is perfume bothered by that? I
have enough doubt to crack the sea open. You see what I mean that could lead
to grand delusions. Why are you worried abbout me? Any signs of something ...
Any way it is more likely my head will crack open. Dont you fell sorry for
me. Things screeching to a sudden halt. It is all so full of twists and tuns.
I dont like it when you say you will reply when you have time. Iam grateful
for y the scraps. Sweet dreams with thorns.
CS. - 12/08/04 19:16:21 EST
w - your messages all suggest you want some engagement, but it seems to me,
you begin to put together 'a demand' which is 'a demand' which occurs at the
start of therapy. This demand cannot be met outside of the therapy setting
because the therapy setting is unique. Your communication solicits concern,
but people get fed up because noone is in a position to help! People may want
to help but can't, because these sites aren't the place.
w - 12/08/04 17:46:55 EST
I want some engagement
Well I did not want it to be "the" therapy settimg. Was I using it
like that? Did it seem that way? It is hard for me to separate talking from
art in this contexrt. Even if it is cheap. Or lousy or gossip ridden self
absorbtion. I have not slept well so maybe I am perilously bringing about
something like subjective destittution in a too public way or maybe it is
just aan obsswession. Or too much cramed into what should be nothing much of
anything in particular. Maybe I should shop more orless< ? which one?
Never could decide before for a long time. Now I dont know anymore. Soon I
wont have any choice for a long while anyway. Why might I be in dangerous
water CS. ?
CS. - 12/08/04 15:10:10 EST
Small icons above lead to website which was produced ahead of a current show,
soon, before Christmas, will update website in an attempt to show something
of what happens when unpleasant (beyond the pleasure principle) art is shown
in a very conversative location.
CS. - 12/07/04 19:07:44 EST
Perhaps, (w.) you should say what you want from this symposia site, clearly, there
are routes to therapy and what I try to convey about this site is that it is
a public site, a public site which has to do with 'art and Lacan'. Not so
long ago, ongoing communication here included Lacan and the writer, James
Joyce. Looking at an introduction to Sem. 11 today, I noticed Lacan says,
Joyce is opposed to psychoanalysis (later on, I think Lacan's view changes)
M - 12/07/04 17:49:04 EST
Stingy is all ive got to say
w - 12/07/04 12:25:02 EST
hello to the dissappeared or sleeping beauties talk to ya later
Iwent out or my way for no response sweet bye bye birdie
CS. - 12/05/04 19:10:18 EST
Halfway through, I think things could have been so much better with 'enough
promotion'. In other words, things fell down at the last minute because the
artist was foolish enough to think someone else should advertise the work!
Showing work which begins to posit a question (with a little help from some
Lacanian friends) was always going to be difficult in a location which is
unfamiliar with latter day conceptual work and the slightest mention of
psychoanalysis.
I'd like to think this is new work, but it's new work shown in a very, very
conservative place.
w - 12/05/04 17:15:02 EST
How went the show? CS?
They would rather spendd some more time with abuelitos? What do you advise
therapist?
iM AM DIASappointed no signs and i hope the messages from yesterday were
edited and not disappeared before shut down. She shoulda asked my daddy those
questions instead. And sister who has read some Zizek says I can not retroactively
spend. All the years she would have allowed me to spend more money for Xmas
presents and now while a wad sit inthier ed. fund she says I cant retroa
spend three 100 $ for a treehouse he wishes for. So well. Left my words
behind in the house. This is not friendly. Did transference take placeyet??
Are you kidding? I did like reading FBC and Tom though. He needs that for his
gnomes and theraoopy. And no TV to distract then which she appaude. Well
typing has not improved after sleeping fare the well untill # 2 in the AM.
Something is the matter with my left arm. It feels a little lame and cramped.
Doctah in? Clinic shut on Sunday. Gone to church?? Reel jammed? I am
baginning to feel a little ill after a few nights not slweepimg too well. And
noe the spacind is all wrong and it's hard to keep trqack of what ai wrote
but I wiil look. There is no number for li and the tutor is on Tuesday. Soon
I think I will need a new remedy because I have kids to take care of and that
is imopossible when too tired and crazy.
CS. - 12/04/04 02:52:18 EST
w - now, some of what was written has been edited, have a look back.
'Working' together would involve a response and 'editing', in this instance,
becomes a way of keeping open the flow of a public site where messages appear
as they are written. If you write eight in a row, previous messages will be
swamped and lost. I use the word 'work' to reitterate limitations, in other
words, the site can't be a subsitute for the therapy setting, but might
'sometimes' be a place where the work of writing is explored. Which is how
our conversation begun, perhaps, what do you think?
w - 12/02/04 20:50:12 EST
How can we work together? I never cared if I was censored or not here. Whats
there to work on? Housework, washing things fixing food and remembering to
feed animals. Read a little backwards. Improve driving. Look for work that
pays. Sweep up some leaves and the house. Bring in some fire wood, as it's
getting cold. Hide things from kids to avoid losses and disasters and wonder
what tomorrow will be like. Too much Art to go see.
Penelope - 12/02/04 20:12:46 EST
I would like to know how a lacanian might handle a child who doesnt want to
go to school and throws temper tantrums? Let say they are just trying to
exercise control or manipulate their mother, of course.
w - 12/02/04 17:04:22 EST
Yesuh > and now I have no more to say it is all over here at this site.
Because I am sick of all these words pouring out, I'd rather do something
else. Dont ask me what, because they dont accept folks like me and I don't
belong to those circles. Didn't know it was at expense of this site. I recall
them wondering, (you) whether anyone would ever respond to the Art and Lacan
S. and this is where the flood started because of your ocean. And what about
the remark about crumbs and wanting more? You got me after an already
difficult morning with a grownup informing I wasn't a child anymore which
resounded in an old echo chamber that I alredy know.
Ship - 12/01/04 12:29:14 EST
... Now some cat is singing a spiritual about that damn chariot. The pain of
a public site. Now the ship is losing its balance. But tears I shall not shed
...
CS. - 12/01/04 02:11:55 EST
w - no time to write this morning, but in a flash, I think the site can't be
a place where therapy happens, but can be a place for writing. It's a public
site
w - 11/20/04 22:22:41 EST
Could ya ex-plain how this site is limited please, so I know the parameters,
Im slow dense and dead.
CS. - 11/20/04 18:11:07 EST
w- show starts tomorrow.
You said something on the messageboard about 'censorship' which was
interesting, also something which suggested the Lacanian notion of the
'sinthome', which you called a special kind of sublimation. When I asked you,
weeks ago, to think about a story, it was with a view to art (writing) as
sinthome. My suggestion may have seemed like censorship, censorship stopping
the flow of your writing, but it was with a view to what might be possible in
the circumsatances. An art and Lacan symposia is likely to have something to
do with this idea of a special kind of sublimation, but it lacks the shape of
therapy, unboundaried, like art sometimes. Keep writing but don't expect too
much, the site is limited and might be a poor substitute for therapy.
w - 11/20/04 14:46:24 EST
You recovering from your show , howd it go? I miss you
Rat - 11/29/04 21:54:12 EST
I'm so bored I could bite someones toes! And my eyes won't stop rolling
around after being hit it in the head backspacey.. I want to crawl around a
tree trunk and scratch n my nails and tickle the tree, a
carob spinosa tree. It's a swirling dark vivid blue sky dropping the
occassional tears, saying bye. The air crying dry.
moth - 11/29/04 21:46:57 EST
yes, good luck.
lucas - 11/29/04 19:15:26 EST
CS - good luck with your exhibition!
CS. - 11/29/04 17:54:26 EST
w- have opening night of exhibition referred to if you click on icon (with
bottom half of figure running by sea). Denise wishes me luck because she
knows I feel very ill-prepared despite twelve months preparation.
w - 11/29/04 15:16:52 EST
Why do you need luck CS. ? I must go sort out some indebtedness messa.
lucas - 11/28/04 22:29:16 EST
There's a soft spot in my heart for clever Chelsea girls.
moth - 11/28/04 19:56:18 EST
I think I will go and seal my lips with wax. They are burnt And my tears are
falling down down down
If dreams are any hint, I am in a vague quagmire with folks I can't trust and
it's not even you!
CS. - 11/28/04 16:25:40 EST
Thanx Denise. Lucas, Alan Watts made connections many others did more than
thirty years ago, 'floating' can't be good advice these days! However, Jane
Birkin sings a song about 'floating'.
Denise - 11/28/04 12:46:25 EST
C.S. Best of luck!
lucas - 11/26/04 15:25:26 EST
CS, my apologies. To anyone confused by my spacing, please be assured that
all responses beneath my name/date to Denise and to CS were entered by me.
Language continues to fail us... I will just take the tab and float away.
CS. - 11/25/04 17:22:04 EST
Lucas- 'life is less a journey'
I think you read something into what I said which isn't there and even worse,
the way you space your paragraphs suggests I wrote it! I referred to 'tiny
quantities of desire' as an expression of and about desire, as an expression
in search of what Lacanians signify by the Subject. What I said was, 'for
some people life is less a journey', and A WHILE BACK was struck by 'Courtil'
descriptions of mainly autistic children and the title of a famous Lacanian
text, The Birth of the Other. Your suggestion that what I say 'presupposes' a
disregard for others saddens me, but please don't threaten me with Alan
Watts!
However, your reading, in fact, pressuposes something about clinical
structure, which must be crucial to a grasp of clinical Lacan. Zizek reminds
us we oppress our neighbours, but clinical Lacan reminds us we have to do
more. There are many Courtil references to children 'who never stop working'.
What should I suppose? They are working towards knotting symbolic and real,
towards some substitute Nom-de-Pere, towards some glimmering of desire?
But-Hey-Alan Watts-would-say, 'just take the tab and float away'!
lucas - 11/22/04 22:20:01 EST
Denise - a journey that surpasses life - we should all aspire to - this is
what art is all about.
You are correct. Art can does work as Sinthome. We see this over and over in
Outsider and Naive art. These artist, not formally trained and with no
theoretical basis, work purely from desire.
CS - Tiny quantities of desire. I am not sure that this can be quantified. It
reminds me of the expression "just a little pregnant." The reality
of a psychotic is no less real than your reality, and they have developed,
sometimes very elaborate systems and mechanisms inorder to navigate their
reality. Your expression "(their) life is less a journey," also quantifies
and presupposes that their journey is somehow inferior to yours. If you are
interested in this line of thought, there is an essay entitled The Value of
Psychotic Experience by Alan Watts https://deoxy.org/w_value.htm you may find
interesting.
Denise - 11/22/04 20:22:25 EST
Of course Lacan also said in seminar XXIII that for Joyce writing was the
sinthome, the fourth ring in the borromean knot. That for Joyce who had a
problem with his father, that he made a name for himself with his writing.
Art can work as a Sinthome, that which holds together, that which functions
for the person. Of course Joyce wrote so that his works would be pondered in
Universities for the next 200 years! As things are going he might just get
his wish! A journey that surpasses his life.
CS. - 11/22/04 19:18:10 EST
I don't know
w - 11/22/04 14:51:51 EST
What are tiny quantities of desire?
CS. - 11/22/04 02:57:22 EST
Lucas, Lacan shows us something about desire and clinical structure, which in
an abbreviated way, may be about process and product. Despite the clamour for
products (in the western world of contemporary symptoms), people sometimes
say, life is a journey and the journey is all important, but this is surely
more the case for the neurotic subject. If you look at translated 'Courtil' papers
(for example), describing clinical work with psychotic childen, you will read
descriptions which have bearing on tiny quantities of desire. For some
people, perhaps, life is less a journey.
Put into the context of a symposia, with many archive references to James
Joyce/ Lacan, we have terms like 'the sinthome' which mediate ever so
slightly, a history of moments (and desire). Lacan said Joyce wrote to keep
his readers occupied and his most famous work describes the events of one
day, exactly one hundred years ago ...
lucas - 11/22/04 22:26:24 EST
CS - There is ART behind the art and that is the action of living.
Denise - you are correct, yet everyday we rise and search for it, and
everynight we dream of finding it. We search for it in the notes of a musical
score, in the words of a poet, in the touch of a lover, in paintings and
photographs, in the spectrum of distant galaxies, and yes in this message
board. We forget it is not the destination, it is the journey. And the
journey is life. Living is knowing.
w - 11/22/04 19:05:16 EST
I see I am close on your tail, but I will fail. Ha ha . My son wanted to know
if the older one was hiding stones in his bed. I said they were'nt his! If my
head cracks like Dumtpy I won't be looking at anything. If I give up, my
hands don't follow!
I'm back without a crack. Where have all you been? I should forget trying to
think where I left off, this machine is not completely at my
command! It's not all my fault! There are dreams to blame and lack of sleep
and no pencil and paper under my pillow when I need it. Anyway who needs
cheap poetry in times like these. I'm not reliable, I hear strange noises.
Lightening flashed before me in the house, came through the glass door in a
soft bright ball right in front of me and didn't even strike, unless I
couldn't feel it. It was a dark might, it could even have been midnight. Must
go now . Un abrazo.
Denise - 11/22/04 05:01:07 EST
Lucas We can never know the truth
CS. - 11/22/04 04:47:02 EST
Lucas, I'd be interested to hear what you have in mind, but conflating art
and life or psychoanalysis and life may not be helpful. Some messages were
foreshortened in the past few days, in part to make this site both manageable
and accessable.
lucas - 11/21/04 19:57:04 EST
There is only one truth. What you make of your life is the only true work of
art. beware the selective wax in your ears. hearing what you like to hear, is
not the truth.
Denise - 11/19/04 20:20:05 EST
woops cs seems i keep putting in a h that does not belong- just noticed!
maria - 11/19/04 09:19:09 EST
w - are you saying dogs get pregnant from one than more dog at the same time?
I didn't know that!
CS. - 11/17/04 18:21:11 EST
w. I'm listening, but it's hard to forget you mentioned needing support on
the messageboard. Have you found some where you live? It caused some
consternation next door and you seem to be avoiding 'that channel' since
those responses. There were hints of censure, but censorship ...?
w - 11/17/04 16:02:12 EST
He once said they can have babies with more than one man at the same time
kind of like a dog! He is talking in his sleep. I wonder what he is saying.
Far off somewhere no doubt. Maybe childhood reveries. Mixed with...
CS. - 11/15/04 17:59:07 EST
You live near 'sharp crumbly mountains' and call someone, 'your royal
majesty' and ask, 'where might the hihness priestess be' (without a
'g')! 'Standing back from writing', is just a response to feeling a
little dizzy sometimes, reading what you say. Which continent are you
referring to, when you say you live near these mountains. N. or S.
America, Spain?
w - 11/15/04 15:58:21 EST
Too perilous in this box for her, how would you like to be able to
see her? What kind of picture, walking along tail whipping around ready to
fall off the cliff? Or strangling herself with her own tail or arm while she
is sleeping. What do you think... your royal magesty? ANd where might the
Hihness priestess bee?
CS. - 11/12/04 18:08:46 EST
The end or pause of a conversation, which may or may not make sense to you if
you look back at passed days!
Lauren - 11/12/04 16:25:24 EST
Hey, What is this?
CS. - 11/12/04 18:41:49 EST
Well, interpretation is not always appropriate and in this instance, this
seems to be interpretation interpreting interpretation. The story, whatever
it is, amounts to interpretation, but, it seems this is writing, not yet
talking. And, maybe, 'talking', being online at the same time, stops writing.
We can't 'suppose the Other', even a little talking. So beginning at the
beginning, with this symposia, supposes the Other of writing before the Other
of therapy. But making a start with writing may take time.
Clinician - 11/12/04 18:17:01 EST
are the rocks helping her stay course or are they knocking her off balance?
Could it be a castration complex to cry so much? Excuse me I am a little
inexperienced. Or is she reenacting the forced choice? I guess we will find
out later maybe much much later. See ya dude.
CS. - 11/12/04 17:50:51 EST
That sentence, 'when the rat was heading towards that other site at might and
night' is really interesting. It's a first sentence, it re-introduces 'rat'
and 'at might and night' is lovely ... but, I want to know, what is 'that
other site'? There's a lot more to say, but I want to know where rat is, at
this point in your text, and where rat is going. I don't want to put
obstacles in this flow, but I'm looking for a starting point, a picture to
work with, a way to read this text, a way to organise a story(?) Can you
stand back from a story that wants to write itself, bit by bit?
w - 11/12/04 17:46:27 EST
Lets see what Mama Rat thinks ...
CS. - 11/12/04 05:44:26 EST
SOMETHING seems to be happening here and on the messageboard too! Here, I
thought, the potential of a story (?) and on the messageboard now, a process
which underlines the limitations of a public site. I think we should review
what might be happening.This site links art and Lacanian psychoanalysis, just
as Lacanian Ink links the two. Making a connection with Lacan's late work, we
PERHAPS have the potential of a virtual site which posits the idea of art as
'sinthome'. With this 'sinthome', the 'work-of-art' emerges - looking after
the artist - looking after the world (if art is important, unique!). So, if
this site can have to do with the emergence of the work-of-art, then we might
respect what happens here, IN ALL ITS COMPLEXITY. Messageboard events
underline limitations. The site can be a wonderful tool, but cannot be a
substitute for therapy. If therapy is a caring, careful approach to
suffering, then the insensitivities of a public site underline the uniqueness
and appropriateness, sometimes, of the therapy setting! With this site, we
might begin thinking about how 'a story' can be organised ... (W.?)
Moth - 11/11/04 15:06:20 EST
as she approached him in the forest in the night fluttering near she spilled
something in his ear and then dropped her cup.
CS. - 11/11/04 04:21:50 EST
Didn't want to say anymore this time, but have to say, names of small
creatures suggest a children's story. Saw very cheesy film on TV last night
called 'About a Boy', the kind of film Brits do so well (with Holywood
funding). The film makes the point that children (of all ages) just need
'backup', when they're subject to 'immense pressures'. And, perhaps
children's stories have to begin addressing the vast division between young
and older people. - Some of this has to do with a messageboard conversation,
too.
CS. - 11/11/04 02:41:09 EST
A few days ago, you referred to Macbeth's witches, who introduce
Shakespeare's play with a witchy premonition. And storytelling sometimes
begins with a premise which leads into the plot. In my case, the event of an
exhibition provides the plot, while two 'narratives' or two video loops
provide the premise.
Rat - 11/10/04 20:04:27 EST
At the moment I have no idea.
CS. - 11/10/04 17:29:18 EST
Is this a story with different spoken parts? And if it is, are different
characters speaking to each other, or not?
rat - 11/09/04 21:02:48 EST
I was 11 when I first went to a hermitage around the sea. Then at 17 the
tourists had seemed to spoil it. It was very misty out there though and
frightening without papa rat. Around the top on the other side is a strange
fantasme, a hidden dark chamber in the stone, an opening. IT seems like I
might be saved perhaps and is there a rope I think down the steep wall.
moth - 11/09/04 14:49:42 EST
Maybe to a forest I will fly in the night
Kundry the Rat - 11/09/04 12:24:57 EST
Is it wise to be the unconscious in here. It seems there was a diasagreement
in here about whether this might be a session?
CS. - 11/09/04 02:51:02 EST
perhaps, you could write story which begins with this question?
moth - 11/08/04 22:17:20 EST
where to?
D - 11/08/04 20:57:09 EST
Longboats can fly
CS. - 11/08/04 16:20:21 EST
so, a moth to bring light to the spider's dark places?
Isolde the moth - 11/08/04 15:00:51 EST
Is there any support out there? I dont seem to be able to find a way to send
an E-mail. Maybe it is better to disappear in a cobweb. Despite assurances in
my dream that I was out of my league, that it was all an intellectual game
that she feared would only leave me sad.
CS. - 11/08/04 02:21:49 EST
I like your New York Times idea, but re. Macbeth, have in mind there's a
forest in it, unless I'm confusing plays. The text sequence in one of the
video loops, referred to above (clicking running figure icon), makes
reference to a forest near Paris. As for Macbeth, there might be some way of
linking Shakespeare's pre-occupation with 'lineage', with events in Freud's
Totem and Taboo.
witch #1 - 11/07/04 16:57:46 EST
Now I,ll have to read Macbeth to see what I'm up to. And B.B., WhO was that?
The other day there was no SIg. only said They were there daily and attitude
good, just like me. And today I'm at church. I must look up Georgechurch
because tomorrow the warlocks come home and they need an exorcism I'm sure.
Where is my granpa named Granville When I need him? The house is threatening
to get out of control again. Pobre Althusser. I am building a wall with the
N>Y>times. But I might lose touch with the real world if I cancel. How
could I when I visit one chamber to get to another. Lucky mine broke. I am
willing to spend some serious money I just did after 25 years. IT was my
sisters. One of us three. Yet I'm building up to seven coming from heaven.
Always have to scroll those dollies away in a hurry or else... Antonio looks
sweet in the video and sounds too. Scary in the paper. Who are you all trying
to frighten. For now I'll go by W.I. My granma was a member and donated
alovely tablecloth she made,needlepoint. For what banquet I do not know.
CS. - 11/07/04 14:29:24 EST
Shakespeare's not a bad name ...
- 11/06/04 17:46:14 EST
I will go see what I can find. XX I can never find a name wherever I look how
about someone out of shakespeare?
CS. - 11/06/04 04:52:12 EST
You mention a ' flood' and lots of names, but remain anonymous ...
- 11/05/04 19:19:15 EST
NO it wasn't JAM maybe Alberto, Ernesto, I was just interupted by some soul
girls to forge that they had been doing their highschool work. I quite
understand. And then I can't forget Lala monitoring every thiing /?
Simone, a gm of chess, dellicato; crowsfeet, zygotic and eee, I picked up the
wrong pad as I left the house Anyway it was all in Spanish from last night
after reading something by JAM im other place, about pabellon rodete nudo
nido and on and on as a flood fell in my brain. And then got up with a hunch
in the middle of night to read all those past dittys. Oh yeah,
"toughtitty said the kitty cause your milk tastes shitty" but not
yours, whichever really were yours. Escobeta. And now I am sad I don't know
why.
CS. - 11/05/04 04:11:05 EST
You seem to be describing 'frustration' what with wheels falling off wagons.
You mention reference to funding and I tried to link this issue to being able
to develop work and Lacanian desire which involves 'fidelity' to desire
itself ... which has to do with subject rather than object. In other words,
frustration may be inevitable and in my case, I may not be able to spend as
much time as I would want doing the things I want to do.
- 11/04/04 15:02:56 EST
THESE fucking gmomes. To C.S., what you said about funding was interesting
yet confusing anyway I saw that broken wagon wheel lie by the side of the
road this morning. The clouds were travelling westward behind the mountains
just like an amusement arcade with a blue blue sky. And that markee you have
is tempting. Hoever is that horse coming this way?
CS. - 11/04/04 02:47:57 EST
These little messages refer to something, it's a pity you can't say more. If
messages are addressed to someone in particular, they can still have broader
appeal ...
- 11/02/04 22:16:17 EST
one moment yes the next no and mayybe I won't send my letter are you fiddling
with he numbers around XXmas too? Whom ever I'm taking to that was the nome
of mi pere
CS. - 11/01/04 02:05:47 EST
Notes towards exhibition archive essay (20.4.04)
Ten years ago, I set about a second career which eventually proves as penny
pinching as the first. Retreating to the first, I mix one with two in search
of a means towards an end. If therapy results in a discourse about hysteria
in the first place, then that first career was always about
hysteria-in-the-first-place without therapy. When psychoanalyst, Jacques
Lacan pondered a return to Freud, he posits desire as a ‘little short’ of a
remedy for contemporary discontents, but Lacan’s notion of ‘fidelity to the
truth of desire’ could be emblematic of current neo-conceptualism in the art
world.
Lacanian desire is a good place for me to start: nothing is in place four
weeks before my show! Although I seem to have lived many lives since, I
remember having similar concerns before my show at the end of my first time
at Goldsmiths. If I referred to having a set of coordinates then, the present
set are organised around an archive called EXACT WORDS. If I I only have to
pull out options from the text, the ‘most likely references’ come at the end
(of the process of ‘working through’ the archive).
I anticipate beginning an installation with two monitors, embedded in art
books and a handmade bookcase. Two video loops, shown together, begin with a
proposition more than a year ago. The proposition anticipates tension between
a collaboratve Other(?) and anOther close at hand (as in painting and
email!).
A first idea doesn’t work after many months. Setting up a recorded video
conference with a Swedish friend in India proves too expensive and strains
friendship! I settle for the title, HELIBERT’S CUT AND ANTIGONE’S PLASTER,
absorbed between text and video and the show pulls together seemingly exclusive
processes, frustrated by funding and the difficult business of collaboration.
Unpacking the show from an archive, I can ‘move on/ back’ to text and digital
photos. If painting and email are ‘immediate’ processes, then these processes
are less defined and can be included close to the show! Working from the
archive, I start with the photo of a drawing on top of an old iMac and
include the drawing with the photo (in the show). Towards the end of the
archive, there’s reference to a text sequence which can be included, the
sequence refers back to the archive.
If items can be reconstructed from a text, then, the exhibition can be
reconstructed in terms of collaboration and immediacy (close up the show). If
the original proposition is bound up with funding, then, the exhibition
interprets funding as having some kind of bearing on ‘fidelity to the truth
of desire’. The show will only be ‘succesful’ if work shown leads to further
work and when further funding depends on overseas funding, the show
anticipates curatorial guile. To continue the work, the work has to be
exported!
If the work can be exported and ‘has some currency’ in an art market, my
assumption would be, the work - SOMEHOW - has some bearing on an analysis of
late Capitalism. In this analysis, retail therapy has long since replaced
concerns about hysteria. In a paper called, Contemporary Symptoms, analyst,
Howard Britton, suggests we’re flooded by ‘consumerables’ (in the western
world) and the satisfaction of consumerables depresses desire when, by definition,
desire can never be satisfied! So, a Lacanian analysis posits the art market
outside of a set which constitutes the economics of depression! In this
analysis, the artwork re-instates desire in response to demands for
satisfaction.
In the final analysis (close up to the show), the artist disappears to join
‘an artist’s public’ torn between ‘looking’ and ‘the gaze’ and at this point,
the installation artist floods a show and the strategy anticipates looking,
when the gaze is always elsewhere! A show anticipates simplicity and the open
space of a reading when the text is crowded with references (layer upon
layer) ...
CS. - 11/01/04 02:04:20 EST
What comes next, in separate message, are first thoughts about essay which
will appear at the back of an exhibition archive. Further information about
this show can be found by clicking on site indicated by running figure icon
above.
CS. - 10/25/04 05:06:47 EDT
Denise, have spent days trying to find other pun, but think now, 'other'
refers to name of website indicated above, where title of show refers to two
video loops, but website to one. Show is now delayed a few weeks and will
update website with show, then eventually finish project by turning archive
into form of an 'artist's book'.
Denise - 10/22/04 11:18:12 EDT
where is the other?
very strange ours!
Had not noticed what was behind your running fig! Unfortunately it is not
merely a question of discretion, Sadly it is not possible to get a copy of
the translation, as you said yourself Saint Tom returns you keep some strange
hours Chris
CS. - 10/20/04 02:51:54 EDT
Hey Denise, my email address is on website indicated by icon with running
figure above, I can so discreet!
But, there seems, by chance, a terrible irony here! Jim runs away from
Ireland, and one day, his jouit-sens is honoured where it all began and of
course, this jouit-sens is also desire. The irony includes copyright turning
jouissance into desire. We are back with SIN-thome ...
D - 10/20/04 02:26:51 EDT
...ou pire
Perhaps that should read: Joyce would be not-surprised! My favourite Joycean
quote of the day: 'Shakespeare is the happy huntingground of all minds that
have lost their balance' pg 220 penguin ed. is shakespeare interchangable
with lacan...joyce...
CS. ah, THE translation does not exist. Between the not-one and the not-all
who knows where to find the note takings from Lacan's seminars.
I am afraid that it is not possible to get a copy of the draft, as it is for
private use only and therefore can not be circulated this 'hole' is created
by copyright laws and unfortunately the seminars of Jacques Lacan are tied up
in a way that is almost borromean. By almost I mean it is the sinthome that
holds it together in a borromean way without which it all falls apart, or to
put it another way makes it impossible to unravel! I somehow don't think
Joyce would be surprised.
CS. - 10/19/04 02:28:42 EDT
Denise, this is awful, it MUST not be published, but is translated! Is there
some way of accessing a draft? So, what is the symptom of this sinthome? We
have 'the Sinthome', but 'the Sinthome' is held back! What would Joyce have
made of such a conspiracy (in Ireland too!)?
Denise - 10/18/04 19:58:41 EDT
woops drop a K find a C WWW.Karnacbooks.com yeah I meant Carnac Books, Le
Sinthome is translated, but must not be published yet. Its a facinating
Seminar and will be published in the near future I would imagine because
there is a Joyce-Lacanian event in Dublin Castle in June 2005. The papers
will be in four languages English French, Spanish and Portugeese. It should
be a great event!
CS. - 10/18/04 09:42:25 EDT
tried Karnac and Cormac Gallagher's translations run up to Sem. 21, 'Le
Sinthome' is Sem. 22, however, what a resource! I think you mean 'Karnac
books'
Denise - 10/18/04 04:56:52 EDT
check out www.carnac.com- they have published some of the manuscripts of
which I speak. Thanks, CS, I have read Bruck Fink, and find his referencing
very useful, I have also read the others I mentioned, these are from unedited
French manuscripts and are also a valuable source.
Antonia, what are you asking?
Antonia - 10/16/04 22:29:47 EDT
Dr Cormac Gallagher (Ireland) has UNPUBLISHED English translations???
CS. - 10/15/04 12:04:07 EDT
Hello again Denise, Encore is published and translated by Bruce Fink (and is
text I find I most refer back to!). ps. you are in Ireland then?
Denise - 10/15/04 11:22:42 EDT
In response to an earlier question
Dr Cormac Gallagher (Ireland) has unpublished English translations of Le
Sinthome and Encore gd lk wth show cs, remember Freud worked on his own
analysis without an analyst!
CS. - 10/14/04 17:06:18 EDT
Anticipating the Other as a 'virtual curator', I rewrite the archive:
Premonition: A shabby sentence on the wall refers to two parts of a title. I
look through a window, pressing my face to the glass. An archive starts with
an incomplete sentence, an excerpt, a reference. Prior to the event, you’re
invited to a show and the invite refers to what you might see and a sentence
in limbo. Referring to an installation including video loops and paintings,
can I list four coordinates and say:
‘despite the first part of the title, long drawn out social processes
and paintings which might have something to do with the other half?’
CS. - 10/11/04 18:40:11 EDT
I would really like to collaborate with a 'curator' next time!!!!!!!
I have a show in a few weeks, but have little help with the nitty
gritty stuff of putting on complicated work in an unlikely setting.
This must be like working at my own analysis without an analyst. The
process intensifies just prior to a show, but I have to leave the
work to deal with stuff 'which keeps going wrong'!! Close up to advertising
the show, I wrote something to be included in an archive for the show. I'll
write it as it comes:
Premonition: A shabby sentence on the wall refers to two parts of a title. I
look through a window, pressing my face to the glass. An archive starts with
an incomplete sentence, an excerpt, a reference. Prior to the event, you’re
invited to a show and the invite refers to
an installation, video loops, paintings and a sentence in limbo. Before the
show, lists, coordinates and an awkward sentence: ‘... despite, the first
part of the title, long drawn out social processes and paintings which might
have something to do with the other half’
Antonia - 10/10/04 09:48:48 EDT
qui sei tu simone?
simone - 10/08/04 11:25:02 EDT
un saluto antonia
la gioia eliogabalica del morto orale...non credi che le formazioni
dell'incoscio potrebbero totalmente disinstallarsi...dal campo delle
significazioni e degenerare...nella plausibile morte del simbolico se
l'interazione fosse meramente reificazione d'oggetto...ovvero annichilimento
totale del soggettivo...del resto non si puo' nientificare il niente
CS. - 10/08/04 01:26:52 EDT
Returning, it seems to me, to the enigma of Lacan/ Joyce, I would like to
offer what I think is a very interesting quote from Franz Kaltenbeck (in
Parveen Adam's ART Sublimation or Symptom, p.112). The initial statement
reads: 'Sublimation starts from an initial lack, the lack of castration'
(Lacan 1967 sessions Feb 22, March 8). Then Kaltenbeck elaborates: The theory
that sublimation starts from an initial lack, castration, reformulates one of
the axioms of sublimation. It is a process where the most important events
take place at the beginning of the artist's career, that is, in childhood.'
Antonia - 10/06/04 09:08:02 EDT
CS - you may be right. In any case "if you talk about" I for one
want to listen.
CS. - 10/04/04 18:46:09 EDT
An 'oral reference' is still a little mysterious, could it mean 'talk about'
in the sense that implies expansion?
Antonia - 10/04/04 12:08:05 EDT
CS - I think it means she wants you to give an oral referent of the show. And
that's why I am asking, let me quote myself "how can that be achieved in
here?"
CS. - 10/04/04 11:17:20 EDT
Antonia, believe or not, despite a population of nearly one hundred thousand
people, there is no appropriate exhibition venue here, so the local arts
trust have booked disused office space for the show. It looks ever bit like a
London gallery and and can be seen from a busy street in the one town we have
here. But please explain 'oral reference' or am I missing something!
Antonia - 10/04/04 10:25:02 EDT
Simone - I can see CS's data of the show is not precise, and then comes you
asking for an oral reference, how can that be achieved in here?
simone - 10/04/04 08:21:45 EDT
apportere ilreferente orale
CS. - 10/02/04 15:44:05 EDT
The exhibition will be where I live, on a small British island called Jersey,
which is not far from the Normandy coast. Pretty, but not glamourous like New
York or London! It is the first of two shows, one here and one somewhere
else, in due course, hopefully. The show anticipates a strategy for small
island art. If the ‘subject arising in the Other’ can be emblematic of the
strategy of collaborations in contemporary art, then ‘site specific work’
looks overseas at other coordinates. A local show comes first, in this case
and work sent overseas nevertheless depends on good curatorship, hopefully
sometime in the near future. Curators are in short supply here! Despite
ambition, despite aims, collaboration has ‘simply come about’ in the project
so far. Exhibitions aside, I would like to get involved in a collaboration or
collaborative project facilitated by a curator, with some structure at the
outset. I was impressed recently by work curated and sponsored by an annexe
of the Museum of Paris, called ‘Arc at the Couvent des Cordeliers’.
Antonia - 10/02/04 08:48:52 EDT
Where is the exhibition going to take place?
CS< - 10/02/04 20:47:02 EDT
Four weeks before exhibition, I should be finishing off, so (perhaps, last
entry in text/archive of show which has been referred to from beginning to
end on messageboard and this symposia:
>It all made sense this morning, drousy with too much sleep. I’m just
>tired now, running through the list left in the car all day, >thursday
conversation at the bottom. Goya, a certainty. Signs of >winter now
downstairs, outside, like before, as in past >writing.< >What should
I say? There’s a subject?<>This moment of >opening and closing is
small. I walk over and look, go where I’m >going and see something else in
the evening.< >I wasn’t dreaming >then, but the next day my car is
still in one piece and you were >just dreaming in my dream. I think about
the exhibition before I go, >a small poem, the dust beneath our feet, the
hermitage, rain, a cold >night< simone - 10/02/04 11:47:28 EDT
il sedimento della parola prima delle parole...oltre il significato...oltre
il morto orale...nell'innesto del non piu' io...innesto di nervi...gangli
senza sena sensazione... la parola prima delle parole
CS. - 09/20/04 01:50:02 EDT
Following Lacan and Joyce, it seems, the artist acknowledges only
'provisional limits'. I put on a show and to maintain good humour, to maintain
your humour, I can only be serious for the moment of the show. With Joyce
according to Lacan, that humour lasts a few hundred years.
Antonia - 09/29/04 16:05:12 EDT
>> I begin with the limit, a limit with which one must indeed begin
>>if one is to be SERIOUS, in other words, to establish the SERIES of
>>that which approaches it.<<
Encore, chapter 1, On Jouissance, p.2
Antonia - 09/29/04 15:55:22 EDT
>> Parto del límite, del límite del cual hay que partir en efecto
>>para ser SERIO, es decir para establecer la SERIE de lo que a (c)l se
>>acerca.<<
My He-art Belongs To Dada - 09/19/04 14:52:28 EDT
Gerard Wajcman uses the term, ‘Work-of-the-Art’ in a Lac. Ink 17. paper with
the same name. There's reference to a singularity which reminds me of Courtil
reference to the work of autistic children. Courtil papers refer to constant
work in the absence of the foreclosed Nom-de-Pere. So, the Work-of-the-Art,
written like the Nom-de-Pere? Wajcman refers to Duchamp and Malevich, but the
phrase, 'my heart belongs to Dada' comes to mind. What can I do? Duchamp’s
too refined to be associated with Dada, his position in the history of
twentieth century art too secure. But I can’t disassociate Dada,
the‘Nom-de-Pere’ + Lacan’s position with Dada’s heirs. Two works by Duchamp
and Malevich are 'emblematic' of twentieth century art for Wajcman and Zizek
equates the triad, traditionalism, modernism and postmodernism with the
imaginary, symbolic and real. For contemporary work, following Wajcman, Zizek
and a moment of perverse association, can this be, ‘my heart belongs to
Dada’, the Nom-de-Pere and the ‘work-of-the-art’?
Ismene - 09/17/04 02:11:28 EDT
Should we leave Antigone alone for the moment?
CS. - 08/21/04 04:07:59 EDT
From where I'm looking, this site hazards an opportunity for artists to talk
about their work in the context of psychoanalysis. The little icon, top
right, leads to a site which premises an exhibition. The exhibition
.considers' the possibility of 'collaboration' in art. In this instance,
collaboration sought, not mediated by a curator. When put into the context of
psychoanalysis, collaboration possibly implies something refuted by Jacques
Alain Miller, when he suggests, the therapist makes no assumptions en route
to 'treatment'. Or, at least, this is what I think JAM says. A question which
I can't easily formulate, has to do with collaboration in art and
collaboration in psychoanalysis. I have in mind, a 'therapeutic alliance' is
never assumed in Lacanian psychoanalysis and I wonder what implications there
might be for the notion of 'collaboration' in contemporary art. (please see
top right icon, if you are wondering what I'm talking about!).
Perhaps, 'collaboration' never arrives at shared meaning en route to
interpretation, At the start of chapter 4 of Seminar 20, Lacan says, 'What
can I still (encore) have to say to you after all the time this has lasted,
without having all the effects that I would like? Well, it is precisely
because it doesn't that I never run out of things to say'.
CS. - 08/20/04 02:56:21 EDT
corrrrr! (anglo saxon expression of amazement!)
maria - 08/19/04 22:19:51 EDT
hmmm, we have a new comer - at the right side of the screen...
Antonia - 08/18/04 22:40:18 EDT
CS - let me add the www because it doesn't work without them https://www.localdial.com/users/chrissands/
CS. - 08/18/04 18:49:07 EDT
Antonia, thanks again, when I emailed JA. enclosed address of website called
'Antigone's Plaster', perhaps you have it already, however URL is
https://localdial.com/users/chrissands/
Antonia - 08/18/04 18:25:58 EDT
CS - perfume will for sure send you the books though not immediately because
she is travelling...
- 08/11/04 01:11:20 EDT
CS. you're kind Antonia, thanks
Antonia - 08/10/04 22:54:27 EDT
CS - of that list of numbers there is 17 and 22. Send perfume your address,
in an e-mail - where you want to receive the books.
CS. - 08/10/04 02:40:52 EDT
alas, missing are 16, 17, 21, 22, 22 (and everything before that!) However,
would suggest Amazon uk. could open up distribution in UK.
Antonia - 08/09/04 20:27:55 EDT
CS - tell me which LIs you have.... or which ones you are missing
CS. - 08/09/04 19:47:59 EDT
Karnac only had small range of back copies last time I was in London, but
that was last October
Antonia - 08/09/04 19:22:02 EDT
CS - Karnak books is supposed to have them, sell them in the UK... is this
the "only one place" you mention? As to Amazon, they do sell in
Amazon US... and they send them to the UK with no problem
CS. - 08/08/04 02:46:21 EDT
Antonia, that would be nice . Only one place LI. is available in Uk. and only
some back copies last time I was there. However, Amazon Uk. could be one way
of opening up distrubution.
Antonia - 08/07/04 22:54:27 EDT
CS - do you receive... have the Lacanian Inks? There's a translated article
of Miller in each on e of them... if you don't have the LI's let me talk to
perfume for as a moderator you have certain rights...
CS. - 08/07/04 02:10:48 EDT
hello Antonia, ... ... its such a pity, for people like me, that JAM's work
is only translated into English in small portions ...
Antonia - 08/06/04 22:52:46 EDT
Chris Sands - Jacques-Alain Miller's 2002 seminar - XIX conferences - is
called "Un Effort de Po¶£233;sie"
CS. - 08/06/04 02:22:42 EDT
imagine for a moment, the poet and the therapist, a moment for words, a
moment for listening, no shadow of an assumption, the slightest intimation
...
Zygotic - 08/05/04 22:21:05 EDT
I wrote your name in the sky, the wind blew it away
I wrote your name in the sand, the waves washed it out
I wrote your name in my heart...
feebly I resist the giving in this one time more.
—Maybe tomorrow, when I've recovered— both of us knew I lied.
soren - 07/26/04 21:25:46 EDT
..uhm...is it that life is more like war than it is to art...
CS - 07/25/04 14:57:52 EDT
clearly it would need some kind of filter if only to avoid inevitable legal
problems, but perhaps in time ... with improved technology (?), after all,
the confluence of Joyce (art) and Lacan (psychoanalysis) promises much ...
(ps. my comments weren't meant to sound critical!)
admin - 07/25/04 09:11:22 EDT
CS. - this symposia certainly doesn't support images... do you know of an
online symposia that does???
CS. - 07/25/04 05:07:25 EDT
If Lacan suggested Joyce keeps analysts busy for hundreds of years, then
perhaps, art keeps 'dancing' and perhaps it's a pity an art and Lacan online
symposia doesn't support images (jpeg etc.) ...
Zygotic - 07/24/04 09:12:22 EDT
I am still dancing... nothing else matters
Eeee. - 07/24/04 04:19:28 EDT
I'm working on an (October) exhibition text, which includes this small
sequence: A pause between one sentence and the next. You look cold and wet is
another sentence. Going on, I almost walk on my watch, push glasses nearer
the wall, watch video tapes go mouldy and write date and word, Odyssey. If the
project first called Longboat in the Hermitage involves collaboration, then,
it includes a Lacanian Ink Messageboard version (july 04).On the front door,
a note which said. Plus two - stream - alarm. You will see, something novel
begins in two places. In more ways than one, ‘stream’ has to do with one of
those places. The title of the other is an interval signifier. The video
conferrence that never was has turned into an artists’ video bedtime story
and an unlikely (future) project and you suggest, both come from the
psychoanalytic reading group
CS. - 07/18/04 06:06:29 EDT
Is this the song of the sirens or is it the song they would have sung if they
hadn't fallen in love with Ulysses? Somewhere, there's a photo of an
artist/musician conducting factory sirens in early 1920's Russia ...
text, a.k.a. Daniel Carter - 07/18/04 04:09:17 EDT
some other icy mime-dust left ardently a trace to no sudden interruption: to
no avail t' know a veil couldn't hide in stride or any kind of poise or grace
was there seen though quietly invisible her motions nonetheless felt t' snare
the senses chances all of the hem taken up even further delight de-write into
some mother
Zygotic - 07/17/04 09:25:25 EDT
I'm just standing, staring into his eyes..... And I'm dancing
text - 07/14/04 08:42:58 EDT
arrive live in the shame without fear is another ritual of stress within and
without recourse other than to allow out with it all reverie th' awe t' tea
'n' see an art be eaten and drunk sober detachments real as reel kin be on
screen 'n' off more often still screened/guarded/discarded/(dispensed
with)/(given out)/broadcast/disseminated electronically conveyed motions
agloss the oceans
Zygotic - 07/12/04 22:49:14 EDT
live in the same skin with them... share every thought, heart beat, and
emotion
Eeyore - 07/12/04 04:06:58 EDT
A pause between one sentence and the next. You look cold and wet is another
sentence. Going on, I almost walk on my watch, push my glasses nearer the
wall, watch video tapes go mouldly, add the date and the word, Odyssey.
Game of Chess - 07/02/04 04:26:20 EDT
It came it comes it come lovely by wet tongue on mine ear, and never before
did she her tongue touch with a flick the inner workings of my left lobe, the
right ignored, as if it were poxed and pussing, the > candle flame of a
tongue mongering for the arousal of miniature worlds, kept small in the
islands of your ear.
- 06/26/04 05:06:52 EDT
before and after Bloomsday, we seem to have invented the drawn out, silent
discourse of the Master. But which master, Freud, Lacan, Joyce? Does Joyce,
the symptom, mark a retreat from clinical structure? Is there anywhere an
English translation of the Joyce seminar?
CS. - 06/16/04 02:16:44 EDT
today is the centenary of the fictional day of James Joyce's Ulysses,
Bloom's day.
what's happening to the 'sinthome',
only a few days before Blooms Day?
- 06/07/04 04:11:26 EDT
I'm lying on the ground, with one leg tied to the other. You look at me and
say,
‘I’ll tie both legs and pull.’ ‘Stop it, you’re pulling my legs, I say!’ me -
06/06/04 20:22:59 EDT
you?
Happy Elegance - 06/05/04 12:10:17 EDT
I search for you and find new me
- 05/24/04 02:05:49 EDT
Reworking a famous surrealist strategy, a page is handed from one person to
the next and in turn, anyone seated around a website table adds a line, a
word, a thought, a page, a product or suggests a better opening! The first
lines could be:
I CLOSE MY EYES
TO AVOID THE GLARE
AND OPEN THEM AGAIN
TO FIND YOU'RE NOT THERE
(so, please continue ... if you dare!)
cs. - 05/16/04 02:27:41 EDT
... this line (or any other line) could mark the start of a symposia
collaboration, a 'deliberately' collaborative text, song, film score, poem
... As you know, this my REFRAIN! And such a process might lead in the
direction of visual processes and some way of attaching email images to the
messageboard. To end this reverie, my question is, can collaborations of this
kind ever amount to more than a residue? Something which occurs in another
place or time? Which wouldn't and doesn't detract from the inspirational
potential of this new symposia site ...
CS. - 05/15/04 17:27:29 EDT
Someone who got to think of Aragon ...
Antonia - 05/15/04 16:06:58 EDT
who wrote the beautiful line? >> I close my eyes to avoid the gaze and
open them to find you're not >>there ...<<
it sounds a bit like the Aragon poem in seminar 11
je suis ce malhereux comparable aux miroirs qui peuvent réfléchir mais ne
peuvent pas voir comme eux mon oeil est vide
comme eux habité
de l'absence de toi que fait sa cécité
- 05/07/04 02:11:48 EDT
I close my eyes to avoid the gaze and open them to find you're not there ...
CS - 05/06/04 02:26:51 EDT
Antonia, for me this is less a question. What you saw of a video project has
changed much since you looked at a draft. What remains are traces of two
narrative structures, which may be 'shown' as two loops running alongside
each other (two monitors). The films involve a process dependent on text and
another which isn't. Some of the filming is at night and both narratives
(still) include a version of a bedtime story. I read Blanchot a long time ago
and can't remember details of his work, just the curious interplay of day and
night. Both symbolic and real.
A few days ago (messageboard), you posited life and death to remedy (life as
another name for) the death drive. Although, it may begin to amount to
curious conversation, I want to proceed in the direction of a narrower
question, if I can! So, how about the darkness of the analytic couch as
opposed to the daylight of scansion? Then ..., working on an ongoing
exhibition project, I keep wondering if scansion's not another name for
collaboration ...
Antonia - 05/04/04 22:52:57 EDT
CS - yours is too broad a question, so much so that I could argue in favor,
much as against it with the same emphasis.
CS. - 04/20/04 02:24:51 EDT
(reply to messageboard) Antonia, in an interesting way, the writer, Maurice
Blanchot often refers to the interplay of day and night in his work. But my
question is, if Surrealism, like psychoanalysis, contends with day after
night, can contemporary art take day into night, premising the Sur-real and
the Real?
liora - 04/25/04 18:16:06 EDT
Does anybody know of a theoretical reseach on classical ballet (any artistic
or educational aspect)based upon Lacan?
CS - 04/18/04 16:47:42 EDT
After a bit, this site seems to accomodate a lead balloon and and some
silence. It seems to me, if we are are talking about contemporary art, we
need to address the subject of sublimation. And I cant resist referring
(again) to Alenka Zupancic’s new book, The Shortest Shadow.
The author addresses ‘a crisis of sublimation’ (p.82): ‘The product of
sublimation does not need to be sublime. It can be anything but sublime (in
the aesthetic meaning of the word), but we are still dealing with
sublimation, that is, with something that opens up and operates within the
gap that separates reality from the Real.’
For me, these few lines eloquently address issues pertinent to contemporary
art and Contemporary Symptoms (Howard Britton, Symptom 2) ,as well, perhaps,
work to be done ...
CS. - 04/12/04 02:22:15 EDT
this was Zizek's suggestion, I think.
Cristina. a few days back, refers to Lacan's distinction between 'fantasme'
and 'pulsion', in SX1 (which may have some bearing on Zizek's ISR). In the
Ticklish Subject (p.266 ch. Passionate (Dis)Attachments), Zizek refers to a
traversing of fantasy and drive. He writes: 'At its most fundamental, the
primordial 'passionate attachment' to the scene of the fundamental fantasy is
not dialecticizable: it can only be traversed'. And, in this sense, perhaps,
contemporary art as ISR. turns towards a curious inactment, which is both
fantasme and pulsion ...
apostrophe - 04/11/04 08:22:04 EDT
is that the order? I = traditionalism, S = modernism, R = postmodernism?
C S. - 04/11/04 02:41:10 EDT
... then ISR as the triad, traditionalism, modernism and postmodernism
challenges the artist in 'beyond the pleasure principle times' ...
- 04/07/04 16:11:28 EDT
ps. should have said: but is the gaze that 'fixed' ...
C S. - 04/07/04 15:59:24 EDT
Cristina, but is the gaze (in art, elsewhere) that static? If the gaze is
always on the side of the Other, then, can we say what the gaze sees?
Zupancic implies this, I think. Zizek (Ticklish Subject) links ISR. to the
triad, traditionalism, modernism and postmodernism. Then, he implies three
cuts. With the demise of the big Other, Zizek (p.298) says, ' (the postmodern
cut) signals not the inscription into the big Other, but its radical
nonexistence. So, I'm plotting some way of conflating subject and gaze (and what
I see as Alenka Zupancic's point)
Cristina Alvares - 04/07/04 08:46:02 EDT
The subject is seen by the gaze, is under the gaze: "il se fait
regarder", says Lacan in Seminar XI. The subject identifies himself (or
herself) with the object of the "fantasme" but does he/she do it
with the object of the drive ? I don't think so and this one of the points
that can distinguish "Fantasme" (imaginary and symbolic)and
"pulsion"(symbolic and real)
C S. - 04/05/04 17:28:04 EDT
Antonia,
no, I don't think emailing videos is possible ... however, will email Perfume
this mini script, an archive - just as a finished video will be. The script
should show, I'm about to film 2 structural 'long takes'. And it seems now,
two takes are dependent on the voice-over. Two actors mime it. Before reading
Alenka Zupancic's new work, I might have suggested, this has to do with the
interplay of voice and gaze.
ps. appreciated very elegant comments under heading 'le justanzo' on
messageboard
Antonia - 04/05/04 12:26:42 EDT
CS. - I was saying you e-mail TM over the technical part - can you upload it
into the website, that stuff... but to send it over, for us to see it, etc,
e-mail perfume. We are very curious at this point. That is, e-mail your video
to perfume - can you do that?
C S. - 04/05/04 09:49:57 EDT
ps. Antonia, if you're not keen, I'll email T M. ... but voice-over and
advice are two different things in this instance. The first process has to do
with sublimation and what gets left behind. If what gets left behind includes
traces of the real, then these traces (just) possibly include virtual
communication (here). However, its only an idea, please don't feel pressured
...
C S. - 04/05/04 09:26:18 EDT
Antonia, I have a script and three 'actors' who will help me translate text
into visual sequences. However, my design includes visual and audio sequences
working independently ... so, all you would need at this stage, to advise and
play a part, is access to the script. I would value anyone at Lacanian Ink
looking at a script in transit, but would especially value your collaboration
as we've talked about this for a while. This is a mini script, seven pages of
A4.
Antonia - 04/05/04 08:51:22 EDT
C S. - How will we get hold of the video? can you send it through the e-mail?
I want to help you as much as I can with your short video sequence, but I'm
not an expert on the matter.
C S. - 04/05/04 02:42:14 EDT
Antonia, could you help me with a short video sequence?
Right now, I have what seems like a completed video mini script, and because
online conversations in past weeks provide some kind of backdrop to an end
product, it would like to offer you a small part and collaboration. This mini
script alludes to a few Lacanian preoccupations and I would value your
response to them. As well, the film includes a short voice over sequence -
which could be delivered speaking into an answerphone. Here, however
misguided, it seems, working with a set of coordinates, I try to retain
something of the real, despite a process which looks like sublimation. If this
small collaboration interests you, even slightly, let me know and perhaps,
Perfume can redirect a mini script to you ... ?????
apostrophe - 04/04/04 22:17:02 EDT
Antonia, Gwen... are you saying the Chapman girls are angels???
Antonia - 04/04/04 19:28:24 EDT
and when they kiss we have a subject
Gwen - 04/04/04 15:07:25 EDT
I like how the Chapman girls look like the chain of signifiers...
C S. - 04/02/04 02:16:42 EST
the value of the representation of nothing ... In the wake of Freud, perhaps,
Duchamp gives up art, but finds his dada in the silence of chess. Instead,
Cage revokes his Silence in favour of beyond the pleasure principle art and
noisy games of chess. Later still, in a paper (published in Symptom 2) called
Contemporary Symptoms, analyst, Howard Britton refers to the 'plus-de-jouir'
character of Consumer Capitalism's sweet nothings. For Britton,
psychoanalysis is an odds with a tendency which saturates the 'object a' and
desire. Contemporary art, surely contends with the saturation of desire which
someone like Warhol predict ...
Antoine Arnauld - 04/02/04 22:57:25 EST
Some logic requires one to postulate that the Zupancic quote may read,
negating the negation of the predicates, the Other is [capital]o ther, by
definition. The act of distinguishing is the separation itself, not
necessarrily to be identified with the derivative Derridean differance, but
simply by exclusion and thus separation. In this sense, how is Tom Cruise not
playing chess? An enigma, not unlike Duchamp, whom is celebrated not for
instance, Étant Donné, but for his chess playing in the composition of which
John Cage constructed, he is constantly castrated - as being homosexual, and
as for art just semblances... what is the value of the representation of
nothing, Ad Reinhardt, Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible
C S. - 04/02/04 15:52:21 EST
John. ... no discernable object, but Tom Cruise as Duchamp?
In the spirit of 'Entracte', I'll chuck in another passage from Alenka
Zupancic, same book, p.147. Before submiting the sentence, my question are,
how does Tom play Marcel? Is art just semblances, did Duchamp risk castration
everytime he played chess? 'This fundamental noncoincidence with itself that
characterizes the Other must be distinguished from the noncoincidence that
constitutes the non relationship between the sexes'. The Shortest Shadow
John - 04/02/04 14:57:14 EST
Precisely C.S. One need not be a hysteric to claim that a contemporary artist
having mastered the market by creating no discernable object is worthy of our
admiration, and the exemplification of this artist is the film actor without
the pretense of directing. In this sense, Matthew Barney is burdened by
romanticism, while Tom Cruise is nearly a contemporary moneyed Duchamp.
C S. - 04/02/04 01:52:50 EST
T. do you mean the market as (contemporary) symptom?
Travolta - 04/02/04 01:19:10 EST
I would have imagined that the subject displaying symptoms of autism may be
said to have a first-hand experience of the Other, in that interpersonal
communicative withdrawal is the exemplification of the subject, though a
subject become a subject before the Other. In this sense, wouldn’t an
autistic display the apotheosis of Zupancic’s gaze? If the discussion is
tending toward the artist as an autistic or psychotic subject, or again, the
aesthete, we must be classical minded from a modern sense, a sense which must
now deal with the market.
Antonia - 04/01/04 20:17:27 EST
ultimately the subject is the subject of the unconscious, and it speaks mots
truthfully in slips of the tongue and other errors showing that the ego's
censorship is suspended. With autism as with psychosis you very rarely get to
hear a slip of the tongue or an error of the kind
C S. - 04/01/04 18:24:05 EST
A. but surely, subject and Other are two positions. Take for example, autism
as psychosis: surely we might say, there is no Other in autism, but can we
say there is no subject in autism?
Antonia - 04/01/04 15:52:48 EST
C.S. - much as I know the subject arises in the Other - there is no subject
without an Other
C S. - 04/01/04 14:59:12 EST
Antonia, but what seems interesting about Alenka Zupancic's assertion, is
this linking of subject and gaze, when the gaze is otherwise linked to the
Other. As in the gaze is always on the side of the Other. Then, one might
ask, if the gaze is always on the side of the Other, when can it be on the
side of the subject? Could A Z's assertion then link Seminar X1 and the
Encore Seminar, as with, the subject becomes the drive?
Antonia - 04/01/04 14:20:56 EST
Lacan introduced the concept of a subject distinct from the ego, and defined
it as "whoever is speaking." This subject is determined
retroactively by an act of speech. To the extent that what is spoken rarely
coincides with what the ego intends to communicate, there is a splitting (opposition)
between ego and subject.
C S. - 04/01/04 00:41:20 EST
Lacan develops this opposition between looking and the gaze in Seminar X1.
(the Four Fundamental Concepts opf Psychoanalysis, Vintage). A Z.'s reading
turns this opposition into an opposition between the Ego and the (Lacanian)
Subject.
scientologist - 02/21/04 22:21:55 EST
How is the gaze an object, even in 4-d time? The quote below treats the gaze
as not only an act(ion), but an object to be conceptualized. The
phenomenology is amiss, the grammatical logic, poetic. Perhaps one should
consider that reconstitution of the ego is the focus of the gaze, in that
what is seen, is what is to be constructed, as in desire for the self beyond
the mirror, as in cinema, an actor in the audience enamored by his actions,
relishing the role of the director’s (ego’s) cues.
The Editors - 02/21/04 15:40:07 EST
If the (constituted) ego is the one who sees things, but at the price of
never seeing the gaze, then the subject's not the one who sees the gaze, but
is, in actuality, this gaze itself.
-Alenka Zupancic, The Shortest Shadow
|
